5.4 dohc in Aussie Ford Falcon

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by stimmler, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. calypsocoral302

    calypsocoral302 New Member

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    My mistake. When I read over your previous posts, it sounded to me like you were using the GTO as why Ford shouldn't build a RWD car. I see now that wasn't your point. Sorry about that.

    I haven't seen the GTO sales figures for June. I'll post on that when I can find them.

    Ford made a big mistake. Do you remember the 427 concept? Not only did it apply a formula similar to the 300C, but it was also introduced earlier. Someone at FoMoCo really dropped the ball here...

    Ford is working on a new Galaxie or Fairlane based on the DEW Lite platform for 2006 or 2007 model years, likely replacing the Crown Victoria. I'm really hoping they use a few cues from the 427 concept... it definitely has a lot of potential.
     
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  2. SVTdriver

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    I agree wholeheartedly. The 427 concept SHOULD have been built. It was a good looking car and a very nice motor.
     
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  3. Route666

    Route666 Active Member

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    Holden was asking 150k for the 427. Two or three people put orders down for it. I think that is why they canned it.
     
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  4. stimmler

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    I second that. That was a sweet car all around.
     
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  5. 351CJ

    351CJ New Member

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    All indications are that the 427 concept styling is used in the car formerly named the Futura and possibly the next CV makeover. The problem is that Ford always seems to be 3 years behind the rest of the market.
     
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  6. Route666

    Route666 Active Member

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    DOH! I missed the plot. My previous post assumed you were talking about the Holden 427. That car was basically a race car, had more power than a V8 Supercar, as it didn't have the 5.0L displacement limit, but cost an absolute boatload.

    EDIT: I'm going to contradict myself here, because I just researched the 427 a bit, and it wasn't more powerful than a supercar, but had more torque, and was going to cost 300k.
     
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  7. stimmler

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    Or seven years. The Camaro Z28 went over 300 hp in 1998 where as the Mustang Gt will finally accomplish that feat in 2005. What a joke. The Mach 1 engine should have been the base engine for the GT. If the Camaro was still around it would have have inherited the 350 hp LS1 that is in the GTO. These years without a direct competitor have not been good for performance. Maybe we would be getting 5.4L engine over here in the 2005 GT like the Boss 260 engine.
     
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  8. Route666

    Route666 Active Member

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    I don't know if the Boss 260 is a good comparison for your GT though. The standard Falcon does have a V8 option that is 220kW (BTW it is a 3V SOHC), so I think that would compare to the Mustang GT, the 260 in the XR8 would compare to the Cobra, and the Falcon GT, well I think that's just an extra option that you guys don't have. Unless you consider the GT-R, then that would compare to the Falcon GT, and exceed it.

    In other words, our Mustang GT Ford equivalent is 300hp, and only this year has it been that powerful. The Mustang is lighter, and flashier than the Falcon too. Sounds cheaper too. The 6 cyl Falcon here is 36k, The V8 is more, the XR8 (Cobra equivalent) I think is 40k.
     
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  9. calypsocoral302

    calypsocoral302 New Member

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    I just thought of a comment to answer this question. I was surfing the web today and came across a sideshot of a car sold in Australia. Recognizing the profile, I instantly thought "GTO"-- nearly-identical rear-end and everything. I didn't know it was a Holden Monaro until I saw the grill.

    It looks like the exterior of the current GTO was a "quick fix" for GM to steal a little bit of thunder from the SVT Cobra and the 2005 Mustang GT here in America.

    As for the re-badged Holden Monaro, so far so good, at least in terms of performance and build quality. If GM were to start building large numbers of musclecars again (under Chevrolet, Pontiac, or even a possible Grand Tourer from Buick), I think the Monaro's platform might be the way to go...

    As for power, keep in mind that its current engine, the GenIII LS1, was originally designed for the C5 Corvette. The C6 Corvette will be using the LS2 (6.0L, 400-hp). Remember what you commented earlier when I was complaining about Ford dropping a pickup engine into the next V-6 powered Mustang? Maybe GM is starting to wind down production on the LS1's to switch their facilities to the LS2 for the new Corvette?

    Not fact, just theory, and makes some degree of sense from my perspective. :shrug:
     
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  10. SVTdriver

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    If you look at the holden site. There is a GTO lurking in there somewhere. That actually has the name GTO. I think someone said GM is looking to develope it's own platform for the GTO within the next few years.
     
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  11. jasonlee0704

    jasonlee0704 New Member

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    I think what SVTDriver's getting at about the new 300C is that sometimes there's a difference between building a great car and making a sound business decision.

    Sure, a Ford Five Hundred with an optional RWD, 5.4L supercharged engine making 400 HP would be a great car and fun to drive. But realistically, what's the economic cost of designing and retooling a production line for that RWD option and that superexpensive, supercharged engine. Then think emissions testing, crash and safety testing, extensive Q&A, consumer focus groups, feedback incorporation, and the huge marketing campaign necessary. Then take that total cost and balance it against the probable sales against established players in a rapidly more crowded market that the new "Five Hundred GT" would compete in.

    Yes, a small market exists for RWD, big-engine, performance sedans... and it's dominated by BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. Offering up something to compete with the big boys in that market is a huge financial risk to take at a time when Ford is struggling to turn its car business from a money loser to a moneymaker, while revamping several of its other products.

    The good sales performance of the Chrysler 300 is due to the average 20-something turning on MTV and seeing every rapper and their dog bling-blinging in a 300. Chrysler's taking an awfully big risk by marketing what used to be a niche product (expensive retro-styled car) as a mainstream revenue cash cow. I pointed out earlier that recent automotive history is littered with the remains of similar "IT" cars whose sales have nose-dived, like the Hummer, the PT Cruiser, the Thunderbird, the Beetle, and the Miata, and from what I hear from the 300's proponents ("Style! Style! Style!") doesn't make me think the 300 is any different in staying power... In 5 years, we'll see how well the 300 is doing against Toyota and Honda's full- and mid-size sedan sales.

    Another car, the Cadillac CTS-V, made some waves when GM launched their ad campaign featuring a luxury Cadillac with a Corvette engine. But six months later, I noticed not a SINGLE PERSON in this thread about sedans with big engines and RWD has mentioned the CTS-V by name. How good do you think the CTS-V's sales are going to do with that kind of plummeting mindshare? And if the product itself can't sustain itself, what kind of omen for a similar product from Ford would that be?

    Then there's the GTO. Sure, it's cool that it has a Corvette engine, too, but all I hear is, "Sure the sales suck, but man, if it had the styling of the 300..."
    Look, if a few BODY PANELS are going to make that big a difference in how the car sells, what does that say about how overcrowded or how small the real market for such a car is today? And it also goes back to the argument that a car should sustain itself: if the styling is what makes the 300 sell and what makes the GTO not sell, what happens to Chrysler when the winds of change blow through? Are they going to redesign the exterior every 3rd year to make sure it still sells?

    Stimmler made a point that GM consistently made more powerful F-cars than the Mustang... and yet, which one's still around today? It would be great if Ford started doing all sorts of wild experimenting and innovation, but not so great when Ford goes under after the inevitable big mistakes that come along with big risks. Designing and producing cars isn't just about what sounds and looks great on the drawing board, but also an economic decision based in costs, markets, and sales.
     
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  12. SVTdriver

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    Yea that pretty much hit the nail on the head.

    I can honestly say it would be very cool if there was a high hp sedan from Ford. But I can afford only 1 car. And that is going to be a mustang. I personally don't know many people who can afford 2 cars. To the point that a high hp RWD from Ford would be a priority.
     
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