65mm-70mm tb

#81
5spd GT said:
I "brought up" the 60ft factor as another example of how track times/mph can vary...and going off the MPH gained is a good determiner if all the other factors are the same...if you have severe traction issues it can some times be hard to determine when to shift which can result in a bog to the next gear...
Click to expand...
LOL.

Hypothetical much? The only cars who are going to have traction problems are those who are already using the biggest throttle body possible. What are you going to say next? "Or a Hot Street car on street tires..."

5spd GT said:
"What is the purpose of a TB?"

Okay...that is a pretty simple answer...attached on the throttle body is the TPS (throttle position sensor)...it basically alerts the ECU when the car is idling/under WOT/part throttle and therefore goes back to the computer and tells the computer the parameters of what fuel to run with the air being received and how to spark the whole system...to make for an efficient run...that is why it is somewhat important to clean the TB everynow and then to keep the 'puter to get a "clean" reading...
Click to expand...
I like how you evaded the point of the question. You know damn well that the context of my question was - you are the one that looks bad for picking and choosing the the way you want to answer questions. What are you going to say next? "Well there are many purposes of the throttle body, so I decided to say the most important."
5spd GT said:
So the day these "gains" were made...was the air temp/humidity the same? shifted at same rpm? shifted at the same speed? That would be practically impossible to a human to do that...running back to back or on another day...that is why some people keep getting quicker when they go back to the track (they change those variables) whether knowing or not knowing...and it equates to a better time or mph or both...
Click to expand...
This isn't microbiology or some other molecular science - it's freaking DRAG RACING! Strap the car to your ass and go. Dump the clutch, hold on, row 4 gears, read the time slip and compare. It's that simple. I don't think anyone would botch a comparison to make one product look better than another, especially if they have no hand in the game.
5spd GT said:
Good points...remember that the "fastest" cars usually overpower a dyno's capabilities and also the "fastest" cars are usually running an automatic based tranny (more consistent)...if your talking about NHRA and all that...
Click to expand...
Since John Force drives a "Mustang," we're going to start comparing funny cars to 11 and 12 second street cars now? Cut me a break.

You, my friend, are very well versed in the art of bull$h!+ing. Too bad no one participating in this thread believes a word of it...

Joe
 

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#82
Joes95GT said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5spd GT
"What is the purpose of a TB?"

Okay...that is a pretty simple answer...attached on the throttle body is the TPS (throttle position sensor)...it basically alerts the ECU when the car is idling/under WOT/part throttle and therefore goes back to the computer and tells the computer the parameters of what fuel to run with the air being received and how to spark the whole system...to make for an efficient run...that is why it is somewhat important to clean the TB everynow and then to keep the 'puter to get a "clean" reading...
I like how you evaded the point of the question. You know damn well that the context of my question was - you are the one that looks bad for picking and choosing the the way you want to answer questions. What are you going to say next? "Well there are many purposes of the throttle body, so I decided to say the most important."
Quote:

I like how you evaded the point of the question. You know damn well that the context of my question was - you are the one that looks bad for picking and choosing the the way you want to answer questions. What are you going to say next? "Well there are many purposes of the throttle body, so I decided to say the most important."
Click to expand...


I thought the purpose of your question was for David to explain why you need a TB to make velocity....i dont know where the TPS stuff came from....maybe he can try answering the question one more time.Cause that answer had nothing to do with this thread...atleast i dont see how it does :shrug:
 
#84
Joes95GT said:
LOL.

Hypothetical much? The only cars who are going to have traction problems are those who are already using the biggest throttle body possible. What are you going to say next? "Or a Hot Street car on street tires..."

I like how you evaded the point of the question. You know damn well that the context of my question was - you are the one that looks bad for picking and choosing the the way you want to answer questions. What are you going to say next? "Well there are many purposes of the throttle body, so I decided to say the most important."This isn't microbiology or some other molecular science - it's freaking DRAG RACING! Strap the car to your ass and go. Dump the clutch, hold on, row 4 gears, read the time slip and compare. It's that simple. I don't think anyone would botch a comparison to make one product look better than another, especially if they have no hand in the game.Since John Force drives a "Mustang," we're going to start comparing funny cars to 11 and 12 second street cars now? Cut me a break.

You, my friend, are very well versed in the art of bull$h!+ing. Too bad no one participating in this thread believes a word of it...

Joe
Click to expand...

Actually Joe...since your getting flustered here...I'm not for sure where you got all offended at...but I took that "purpose of TB" question...literally...so I answered it...if you would like to ask more specifically what you "meant" I will try to answer it if I know it even though you will already know the answer...

Actually traction depends on a lot of factors...not just power...suspension/tires/gearing/pavement type/etc...

I NEVER SAID SOMEONE BOTCHED THE PROCESS OF THE GAIN...and never intended to be read like that...I simply was stating that there are to many variables when trying to net a gain from a track or dyno to really prove a point...I have gained as much as 3mph in three track trips with no changes for performance...just practicing and getting better at driving and whether the weather helped - I'm not for sure:nonono:

To simply say drag racing is simple is simply silly...especially when your trying to access a gain from a mod...WAY TO MANY FACTORS...and oh yeah...some don't go through 4 gears...

On the John Force comment...I think you missed the point I was trying to make...or I just didn't explain it very well (probably the latter)...oh well...think what you want...

The funny thing is that I have not disowned using the 75mm completely...I have "simply" been putting it is not needed and problems can arise(White94Cobra - also from personal experience/other forum members as well)...most have luck with them and I wish them the best of luck...but I would spend my money elsewhere and there is no need for "Don't fear the gear - Bigger is better" theory...needs to be more explanation behind these allegations... :shrug:

It reminds me of these threads where you get the tiresome question of "what gear"...and "people" will automaticaly jump in and say 4:30's and so on...when you don't ask questions about what the user (original poster) wants out of the car...or the "what heads"...well that depends on funds available/future mods/etc...there isn't just one set of heads for everybody...

So Joe...since "nobody" in here believes what I type...I guess I just makeup things :shrug: ...and thanks for the title you have given me :nonono:

nmcgrawj - The TPS comment from me responding to his question and his previous post (which I will quote) Joes95GT - "They're an inanimate object with a cord connect connecting to the gas pedal controlling how "big" the hole gets. It's truly that simple."...so I responded with the TPS comment...and explained what the purpose of the TB was...

White94Cobra - Very well put: "Anyways fellas hope everyone gets the TB they want for christmas!!!"

Yeah it appears that 65mm is a restriction on Pauls car :rolleyes:

No really...bigger isn't always better...Could that be possible?
 
#86
If I had the money long tube headers (I run unequal length shorties), bigger tail pipes (I run the stockers), bigger TB (I run a 65mm), and a bigger MAF (I run a 75mm) would all be going on my car. Do I think I'll gain a lot? No, but I'm pretty darn sure I'd gain some which at this point some is all I need! But I think my money is better spent right now on the suspension and taking some weight off the car, ie full tubular front end/coil overs/adjustable struts. That is what I'm hoping is my next mods for the car. I already have the fox TB cable and bracket here at the house though... :D
 
#88
Yes I read it...I don't miss a post...I read them all...I told you Ed recommended me a 75mm TB also...(previous thread)...but he said the 65 would be fine...I'm glad Paul is spending money elsewhere to get more beneficial gains elsewhere...

This is a forum...there will always be misconscrewed info...kind of like when someone puts something "nice" and it is taken as "mean"...that is just the way forums are...I don't think it is funny...just misinformed and misleading... :shrug:

I got done with my finals on Monday :hail2:
 
#89
Killercanary said:
If I had the money long tube headers (I run unequal length shorties), bigger tail pipes (I run the stockers), bigger TB (I run a 65mm), and a bigger MAF (I run a 75mm) would all be going on my car. Do I think I'll gain a lot? No, but I'm pretty darn sure I'd gain some which at this point some is all I need! But I think my money is better spent right now on the suspension and taking some weight off the car, ie full tubular front end/coil overs/adjustable struts. That is what I'm hoping is my next mods for the car. I already have the fox TB cable and bracket here at the house though... :D
Click to expand...

Paul, I hear you on "if i had the money". If I had the money i'd have a dart 347 with ported TFS hi ports yada yada. Aren't you already cutting 1.5-1.6's? I cant see you gaining much at all with more suspension. I feel with the heavy car you need more power to over come that. Those mods you listed will cost you figure $500-$700 and whats that really gonna gain you? Your "rival" gained almost 2mph with the bigger TB, that might get you 11's right there :D If it were my car, LT's and a 75mm or 75mm race TB would be my next mods. Way more cost effective if you ask me considering you can sell the old stuff.

I'm glad Paul is spending money elsewhere to get more beneficial gains elsewhere
Click to expand...

An almost 2mph gain for maybe $150 out of your pocket isn't a benificial gain?? Figure what I did, $269 for the 75mm then sell the tiny 65mm for $125 so thats like $150 out of pocket. I got $10 that says a bigger TB gets paul into the 11's :D
 
#90
Grn92LX said:
An almost 2mph gain for maybe $150 out of your pocket isn't a benificial gain?? Figure what I did, $269 for the 75mm then sell the tiny 65mm for $125 so thats like $150 out of pocket. I got $10 that says a bigger TB gets paul into the 11's :D
Click to expand...

But again that 2mph gain could be from other factors...as I put in the above post I gained 3mph after a few trips to the track...MANY FACTORS are present than just a TB swap...and it is closer to 1.5mph gain than 2...its all in the advertising huh :D

I wouldn't sell my 65mm for $125...that is asking to much...especially if it is to a friend or something...how does $10 dollars sound? :)

The point with Paul's car is that it isn't that much of a restriction if at all...they flow plenty (obviously)...
 
#91
He gained 1.72mph :) That guy drives his car on point its not like he's inconsistant. Best mph EVER with the 65mm 113.03 and 114.75 with the 80mm on his first outing!!!! Like Ed says, 'talk is cheap take it to the track and prove your point' which that guy did ;) I would also bet Paul (along with myself if we had a track) would see over a 1mph gain as well.

Fwiw, my TB was an accufab so $125 shipped was a steal for the guy.

Im actually probably gonna be doing another cam from Ed. Something a bit more 'aggressive' along with a bigger intake. I'm considering a holley or an RPMII. I really wanted to do a 342 stroker, but I dont wanna spend too much money. Blower is sold, the guy should be picking it up this weekend. Now I might ask santa for a new camshaft :) and then buy myself a new intake manifold. I'm also looking for an anderson PMS.
 
#92
Grn92LX said:
He gained 1.72mph :) That guy drives his car on point its not like he's inconsistant. Best mph EVER with the 65mm 113.03 and 114.75 with the 80mm on his first outing!!!! Like Ed says, 'talk is cheap take it to the track and prove your point' which that guy did ;) I would also bet Paul (along with myself if we had a track) would see over a 1mph gain as well.

Fwiw, my TB was an accufab so $125 shipped was a steal for the guy.

Im actually probably gonna be doing another cam from Ed. Something a bit more 'aggressive' along with a bigger intake. I'm considering a holley or an RPMII. I really wanted to do a 342 stroker, but I dont wanna spend too much money. Blower is sold, the guy should be picking it up this weekend. Now I might ask santa for a new camshaft :) and then buy myself a new intake manifold. I'm also looking for an anderson PMS.
Click to expand...

Yep but there are other factors...good driver doesn't mean that everything else is the same...you can't possibly shift at the EXACT rpm back to back to back times...

Why don't you just have your intake ported? Save a little money and flow equally as well...or do the TF's not allow you to port enough?

Santa :hail2:
 
#95
GTJake said:
5spd GT- LOL...you crack me up. You have a retort for everything.

Jak
Click to expand...

Give me a specific example...I don't mean that in rudeness...oh and I'm glad I could provide you some humor... :)

I have stated you do not NEED a 75mm TB to run fast (sure you might gain some more power)...never denied that...just loss of lower end torque and the bucking (driveability) problems...

That gain at the track (1.72mph) had something to do with the TB and something to do with another variable...if you use the ever-ready math of 10hp = 1/10th...then he gained 17 USEABLE HP?...umm...not likely though I'm sure he gained...did he shift at the exact rpm? humidity/temp/...etc...

For someone to discount the dyno/track is not very intelligent...but many more factors come into play at the track...much more involved...
 
#96
GTJake said:
Jak
Click to expand...


jak who? Jack mehoff? :banana:

Anyway, I gained about 2mph going from a tfs 1 cam and shortys to LT's and an ed cam. I also gained a horrible lean condition so thats why I only gained 2mph. But anyhow, I certainly didnt gain 20hp, I lost about 10hp at the peak. I had some really NICE gains in the 2500-3500 range. *dyno racer mode* I gained about 40 ft/lbs at 2800rpm alone *dyno racer mode.
 
#97
5spd GT said:
For someone to discount the dyno/track is not very intelligent...but many more factors come into play at the track...much more involved...
Click to expand...

And everyone understands that. But what u have not explained is how a dyno can take factors about the CAR itself into consideration. How can it tell u about the suspension setup? How about the gearing? Yes the dyno is a useful tool...but its not the same tool as a drag strip. It cant perform the same tasks. Therefore it can not tell you what the car can do.....just the engine.


All im saying is that the dyno and track tell you different things about the car. The dyno is more engine specific while the track will tell the story about the WHOLE package...driver, environment, everything.

:nice:
 
#99
Actually I'm pretty confident in that I explained the differences between the dyno/track...because I stated the track has more variables (suspension/gearing/and more importantly the driver (consistency)...)...which can throw off gains from a single aftermarket part swap...some people have lost time because of intake swaps (usually the bigger "setups)...is it because the intake itself? Or the driver not using the available powerband for example...?
 
#100
YEAHLOH95 said:
now after ALL this reading ,i have to go out an buy a 90 mm throttle body dang i'm not even sure what size i have on my car now ?isn't that funny :rlaugh: it might be a 70 or 75, how big does bbk make?
Click to expand...

I believe the biggest one they make is their 80mm "Race" version...
 
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