'69 TORINO
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302 coupe
Founding Member
why would you go thru the trouble of installing a weak mod motor when a big block(or even a small block) would run circles around it for way less $ and trouble?
You would have to cut shock towers to make it fit, replace most of the wiring to handle computers and sensors, fab all your own mounts, and handle issues like old gauges talking to new inputs. You could easily spend $10,000 for 300 horsepower.
302 coupe
Founding Member
what about a 408W, with 8 Weber injectors, and an OHC dominion head conversion, should make twice the power, for half as much $, and still be twice as rare. Mod motors just don't make sense in a classic. The exception being what SN65 is doing, that setup is neat. You'd end up with at least $7-8k to swap in a 300 hp truck motor that wouldn't be much fun in a classic. And when you go to mod it for more power, the only viable option is forced induction, which the stock bottom end can only handle so much of. It just doesn't add up, there may be a wow factor involved there, but there are better ways to approach it, like swap in a 2.0L Zetec, and fill the rest of the engine bay with dollars bills or gold bars.
72mach1
Founding Member
lol Hey, My 351 Clevelands a 300 hp truck engine...I even have a C-6 truck tranny, and a 9" truck rear end, and my car is pretty fast!
If you want an easier EFI swap donor, I've got an 88 Lincoln Mark VII for sale. I'ts got a low mileage 5.0 HO motor, AOD transmission. You can sell the disc brake 8.8 to offset part of the cost. I'm in south louisiana and can meet you halfway with the car. It runs and drives but is wrecked on the right side. Missing the right side door. Can trailer it up to meet you. email me at [email protected] if you're interested.
almost any engine can be swapped into almost any car. the real question is;
is this swap feasable for what i want, and what kind of budget do i need to have to make it happen.
the mod motor swap has been done in many classic cars, including mustangs, fairlanes, galaxies, even a 49 ford and a couple of street rods. the swap isnt all that hard, untill you get to the wiring harness. you will likely need to change the front suspension to a mustang ll suspension(best way to go). i would use the 4r100w trans that came in the navigator and a 9" rear with 3.55 gears. as for onyl having 300hp, yes, but a supercharger does wonders for these engines, and 20+ mpg and excellent drivability in all weather conditions makes this swap a good one to do, IF you are willing to do the work, or can afford to farm out what you cant do.
is this swap feasable for what i want, and what kind of budget do i need to have to make it happen.
the mod motor swap has been done in many classic cars, including mustangs, fairlanes, galaxies, even a 49 ford and a couple of street rods. the swap isnt all that hard, untill you get to the wiring harness. you will likely need to change the front suspension to a mustang ll suspension(best way to go). i would use the 4r100w trans that came in the navigator and a 9" rear with 3.55 gears. as for onyl having 300hp, yes, but a supercharger does wonders for these engines, and 20+ mpg and excellent drivability in all weather conditions makes this swap a good one to do, IF you are willing to do the work, or can afford to farm out what you cant do.
302 coupe
Founding Member
72mach1 said:
I don't know about that man, I don't think clevelands ever came in trucks. 351M's and 400's were installed by the thousands, but no cleves that I know of. If by some long shot chance a cleveland were installed in a truck, it would have been a 2V headed 8.0:1 compression smogged down boat anchor. And 9" rears went into service in cars and trucks in the same year, 1957 I think. C6 trannies were in service in car applications before Ford saw fit to use them in trucks. Maybe your car isn't so fast either.....
And the poster who said something about 20+ mpg with the 5.4, I wouldn't count on it. They get around 16 mpg at best in our trucks.......and thats the new 3V's that get better mileage than the others. I'm not real sure what kind of mileage the Navi 4V's get, but I really doubt its much better. Of course, if it were in a lighter body, like said 69 torino, better mileage might be possible.
Even though it sounds like it, I'm not putting down the 5.4, but to me there are better choices for an engine swap. The modular motors are big and heavy, but still suffer from small displacement. Unless you shell out big bucks for a some sort of stroker variation with forged internals, ported heads(still limited to stock castings), and aftermarket cams(it gets expensive buying 4 cams at a time)they won't make much power. When it comes to power and $ with Fords, pushrod motors still come out on top. If you want it to set it apart from the rest, the sky is the limit. There are all sorts of induction systems and EFI setups to choose from. But if what your going for is smooth, reliable, unique, heavy, small dispacement, excessive installation headaches, mediocre power and mileage, and budget is of no concern, maybe the 5.4 is for you.
Agent Orange
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- Sep 17, 2004
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302 coupe said:
There's nothing weak about a mod motor. They are heavy, large, and have an inefficient horsepower/cubic inch ratio, but they are capable of handling as much or more power as any smallblock windsor. If nothing else, the valve-train is capable of higher RPM than any pushrod-based valvetrain.
It's not practical, but then if we were all practical then we'd all own SRT Neons.
302 coupe
Founding Member
Agent Orange said:
True, they can handle the power, it just costs exponentially more than it would with a pushrod motor. Pushrod valvetrains aren't too bad, screw in studs and solid lifters will run at 7000rpm all day long for cheap. And modular motors actually have a pretty good horsepower/cubic inch ratio, it's the hp/$ and hp/physical size ratio that is way off. The current 3V 4.6 makes a little over 300hp with only 281 ci, the Navi 4V i srated at 300hp with what, 324 ci. I think a 460 takes up less sace than a SOHC 4.6, and then the 460 can be stroked to well over 500 ci.......and probably weigh only a tad more. Hmmmm, 514ci or asphalt shredding torque or 4.6L of mediocrity....tough call
shlby123 said:
i would go with a 5.8 (351w) from a 94-97 truck or van and change the intake and cam but leave the rest of the motor basically stock. the 94-97 351's are roller motors from the factory and so any 5.0 perf. cam will work in it by only changing just the cam itself. there are a ton of intake combo's for the 5.0/5.8 motors and many will use the stock 5.8 lower intake so all you would need is the upper and a good throttle body. use the mass air computer and harness for a 5.0 mustang since the trucks were all speed density (i think) and change the oil pan to an early model style pan and bolt it in. you also have a lot more transmission choices with a pushrod motor as well, since there are so few combo's for the mod motors. also pretty much anything that will bolt to a 351 windsor in a 69 torino will work with the 94-97 motor as well. a/c, power steering, alternator, headers etc. of course to use the early barckets and pulleys you will need the early model timing caover also. beleive it or not a well setup 351 will get the same or better mileage than the 5.4 mod motor, even with a carb. so don't count them out just because they are old school pushrod motors
Agent Orange
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- Sep 17, 2004
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shlby123 said:
Well, let me put it to you like this:
If two 69 Torino's are side by side and one has a mod motor and the other has a bigblock, I'm passing right by the bigblock to check out the one outfitted with the 4.6...
But if I were to build such a car, I would more than likely do a pushrod engine. The reason being is that the mod motor is much more involved and will require a lot more ingenuity, money, time, and modification to achieve the same results.
But that's me...and I like to drive my cars, not work on them.
302 coupe
Founding Member
I see what your saying.....I'd look at the mod motor and ask why, but I'd look at the big block car and high five the owner.
You'd have to give credit for the mod motor swap, no doubt about it.
You'd have to give credit for the mod motor swap, no doubt about it.
ratio411
Founding Member
A lot of good comments....
My .02:
A 460 fits into the 69 Fairlane/Torino.
For me, that's 'nuff said.
A 351w fuelie engine would fit between the towers with room to spare. The plenum for the intake might require a cowl hood or a 'bulge' at least.
That would beat the socks off of the headache and expense of a mod engine.
Dave
My .02:
A 460 fits into the 69 Fairlane/Torino.
For me, that's 'nuff said.
A 351w fuelie engine would fit between the towers with room to spare. The plenum for the intake might require a cowl hood or a 'bulge' at least.
That would beat the socks off of the headache and expense of a mod engine.
Dave
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