86 302?

Discussion in 'Fox Engine Swaparoo' started by sdsteve619, Jan 7, 2012.


  1. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    I bought a 331 stroker for my 66 vert. It's my understanding that a 86 302 is a little different than the 87 and newer. So is there an easy way to what year the eng. is with the eng. in the car? Also what does pedistal/stud rocker mean and how do I tell the diff. or what do they look like. Thanks
     
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  2. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    The heads were high swirl heads...and arguably junk. They were good for mileage in the 80's but they're really just good at restricting airflow with all the valve shrouding. If you can pull the valve covers, I think the casting number is in there somewhere-should say E6SE for '86 model heads. Pedestal mount rockers were adopted in favor of non-adjustable stepped stud mount rockers in 1978, and existed on 302s until their discontinuation in the '01 model year Explorers. Pedestal mount rockers are simply bolted to the head as opposed to being mounted on a stud with a nut to secure/adjust them....I'll see if I can find a pic.

    Edit: Otherwise, the differences between an '86 and '87-'01 were fairly minimal. About the only differences were non-Mustang '87-'92 engines had plain cast pistons while Mustang 5.0s got the TRW made forgings. Everything from '93-'01 has hypereutectic alloy slugs so Ford could run tighter wall clearances. Camshafts were flat tappet torque cams for trucks until '96 when replaced by the 4.6. The Mustang received the higher duration and lift 351W firing order roller cam (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8), and everything else was a standard 302 firing order roller cam (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8). Pretty much everything to my knowledge from '78-'85 was all cast 8.4:1 compression to include Mustang engines.
     
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  3. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    here's a couple of pix, the first should be of stud mount if I inserted the images correctly, and the second are pedestal mount rockers
     

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  4. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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  5. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    I'm not sure how this post works so hope this is ok. My motor is a 331 edelbrock heads, not sure if they are performer or rpm's and don't know how to tell, edel. rpm manifold, edel. 600cfm, b303 cam. And it's not very fast so where I'm going with this that I want it faster. Thinking about AFR street/strip heads, f303 cam and a 650cfm. When I look up the parts they ask if it is a 1986 motor because it is somehow taller, shorter sometghing like that. So I thought first I have to know for sure if it is an 86?
     
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  6. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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  7. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    I am on the edil. site now under 5.0/5.8 heads and it states that "86 need pistons notched and will not accept rail rockers" So now there are 3 types of rockers. As you can tell I don't know that much about the sbf. I do have a few pontiacs though, there easier. Thanks for all the help.
     
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  8. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    There's only "3" types of rockers because the two different types of stud mount rockers are known as rail and non-rail rockers. The important part to know about them is that rail rockers are stud mount but not adjustable. And '86 engines need pistons notched because they have no valve reliefs...at all. And, if memory serves, they actually are above the deck by a couple thousandths. The '86 engine is NOT taller or shorter, or anything like that...just different pistons and heads, but since you have aftermarket heads and you have a 331 stroker all that information is completely irrelevant.

    Edelbrock aluminum sbf heads are either stud mount or pedestal mount. If you have RPMs, they will say it on the ends of the head...it's engraved and it'll say Edelbrock in script, then Performer, or Performer RPM...then there should be a model number, and if you have Performer 5.0 heads for example, they'll have a CARB E.O. number...just take the number and cross reference it on the Edelbrock site, or through Summit or Jeg's...and you can find out what version of the heads you have.
     
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  9. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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  10. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    Thank tou txstang84.
     
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  11. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    When it comes to being "fast"...define what you mean by that-is it a dog? Does it not run as fast as you want? How fast is fast to you? 11's? 10's? If you have a well tuned 331 with Edelbrock heads and a high rise dual plane intake (Edelbrock RPM), then your problem is probably because the carb is too small or jetted wrong...you might have other tuning issues, you said nothing about what kind of transmission your running, or what rear end ratio, what size tires, exhaust, ignition timing...

    Basically your information is very vague...you need to define expectations and a goal. I've seen and ridden in stroker powered cars with similar builds that were absolute turds until properly tuned-this applies to carbed vehicles too-not just EFI fed versions. But, a good running 331 in a little '66 ought to move down the road rather smartly if the car is configured correctly. The cam, by many standards, is pretty old tech and probably isn't the greatest grind for a stroked 302, but nonetheless it should make decent power up to about 5500 or so...

    Can you reply with a better idea of what all you're working with? And please disregard the whole '86 thing...your combo is already built and its a moot point that doesn't affect you. 331 means that you have aftermarket pistons that will already have a proper amount of valve relief for pretty much whatever you wanna run. I can't think of a set of 331 slugs that don't have enough relief for at least a .600" lift cam.
     
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  12. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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  13. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    66 vert 331 5 speed stock 8" rear 290 to 1 +/- 255/60/15 tires and when I say it's not very fast I'm comparing it to my 69 ta w/ a 462 4 speed so I guess that's not a fair comp. However I still want it to be faster, don't we all want that lol.
     
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  14. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Apples and oranges man...big block v. small block. Also, you're rocking a 2.90 rear gear? Waaaay too tall a gear. The 8" can take some abuse, it's like a small 9"...throw some 3.50-3.90:1 gears in there and prepare to start buying more tires. A couple of other questions:

    Is there anything done to the carb, or did you just install it straight out of the box?
    What kind of exhaust are you running?
    How much initial timing/total timing/when is it all in?
    What size pipes are you running? (I'm guessing duals here...)

    Combo optimization is the key here...you don't have the cubes like your old TA, so unless you throw on a bottle, it's likely to not be as fast, but if you match all the pieces up correctly, you'll have a quick and fun car to drive.
     
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  15. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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  16. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    Carb out of the box, duals 2 and 1/4 ", will install 355 pois. this year, timing don't know. Also the cam is so mild it sounds like my honda. I also have a 93 vert. which I love. I like what you are doing to yours.
     
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  17. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Get a rod and jet kit for the carb, or a different carb you'd be more familiar with, play with the timing. But don't expect much noticeable change until you get those gears changed. As far as the cam being mild, yeah, a B cam is pretty mild, but it should still lope a little and if you want to get a little more lift out of it, you can buy a set of 1.7 ratio rockers if they're not already on there...it'll give you another 0.030" lift...
     
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  18. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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  19. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    So why not install a F303? and a 650 cfm?
     
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  20. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    None of this matters. None of it. If your current setup is a 331 stroker then whether or not your block is an 86 makes NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. All of the internals in that block have been changed for the internals necessary for the 331 build. So EVERY reference to this or that component fitting or not fitting an 86 block no longer apply to your engine combo.

    When stock: The 86 came with flat top pistons with no notches for valve reliefs. It was problematic to use after market cams and heads with these pistons because of the likelihood of a piston coming up and smacking into the valves. You no longer have those pistons. You don't even have the same crank, or heads, or any other internal part that came stock on that block. So your question is moot. It no longer applies to your engine.

    What kind of question is this? Why not install and F cam and different carb? Because you don't know if that cam and carb are suitable for your engine combo... that's why.

    Find out what your internals are. What pistons, what crank, what heads, what size valves.... better yet. Go to Ed Curtis' website and down load the cam order form.

    I can try and make it a little easier. Look at the information below. If you cannot answer these questions or do not know how to FIND the answer to these questions then you find someone to help you, that can. Otherwise, all you're going is spitballing. You MUST know what you have (at least) before you can begin talking about what you need. Blindly throwing cams and carbs at the motor is not going to get you anywhere or make you any faster.


     
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