Electrical 94 gt losing ignition fire- help

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by blackhawkkid308, Mar 14, 2013.


  1. blackhawkkid308

    blackhawkkid308 New Member

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    my 94 gt shuts down after extended run time. no fire. it has a new msd coil, cap, and rotor. it has a new pole pick up in the distributor. i have replaced the module also. after it sits for a half hour or so it will fire right up. i am researching the module controller that bolts to the overflow jug bracket. i need some input before i spend the $205.00 plus tax for this relay module at advanced auto parts. i just recently installed a new cam, cold air induction, under drive pulleys, throttle body, headers, and a new shifter but the car was acting up before and after the new parts.
    bhk308
    Originally Posted by blackhawkkid308 [​IMG]
    well i took the msd coil back and exchanged it and put the relay control module on it and guess what. it quit again in about the same place as the other 2 times.
    what the heck could be wrong with this car? its killing me. i can't even chance it to go out of town to visit my 84 year old dad.
    bhk308

    went and bought a reman distributor at autozone and the car idles better but when you have the spout out to try and set the timing the car won't start.
    put the spout back in and it runs. does that mean anything. i am still lost

    ---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackhawkkid308 [​IMG]
    my 94 gt shuts down after extended run time. no fire. it has a new msd coil, cap, and rotor. it has a new pole pick up in the distributor. i have replaced the module also. after it sits for a half hour or so it will fire right up. i am researching the module controller that bolts to the overflow jug bracket. i need some input before i spend the $205.00 plus tax for this relay module at advanced auto parts. i just recently installed a new cam, cold air induction, under drive pulleys, throttle body, headers, and a new shifter but the car was acting up before and after the new parts.
    bhk308


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackhawkkid308 [​IMG]
    well i took the msd coil back and exchanged it and put the relay control module on it and guess what. it quit again in about the same place as the other 2 times.
    what the heck could be wrong with this car? its killing me. i can't even chance it to go out of town to visit my 84 year old dad.
    bhk308

    went and bought a reman distributor at autozone and the car idles better but when you have the spout out to try and set the timing the car won't start.
    put the spout back in and it runs. does that mean anything. i am still lost
    #1
  2. a91what

    a91what Member

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    I had a similar issue before... Mine was caused by what seemed to be ionizing inside the cap.... It sounds weird but on rainy or humid days it would happen. I would stop at a light then she would just die..... I noticed lots of carbon tracking inside the cap. I replaced.the cap and rotor but still dealt with same issue. Some dielectric grease smeared on the inside of.the cap and on the rotor ( did the wires.too) seemed to fix the issue no problems since....
    #2
  3. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    hence the readon Ford put those rubber distributor covers on :rolleyes:
    #3
  4. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Read this and then checkout the link at the bottom. It deals with a 95 Mustang with proplems similar to yours.

    PIP Sensor functionality, testing and replacement:
    The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

    Some simple checks to do before replacing the PIP sensor or distributor:
    You will need a Multimeter or DVM with good batteries: test or replace them before you get started.. You may also need some extra 16-18 gauge wire to extend the length of the meter’s test leads.
    Visual check first: look for chaffed or damaged wiring and loose connector pins in the TFI harness connector.
    Check the IDM wiring – dark green/yellow wire from the TFI module to pin 4 on the computer. There is a 22K Ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 22,000 ohms +/- 10%.
    Check the PIP wiring - dark blue from the TFI module to pin 56 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
    Check the SPOUT wiring – yellow/lt green from the TFI module to pin 36 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
    Check the black/orange wire from the TFI module to pin 16 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
    Check the red/green wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch on and the engine not running.
    Check the red/blue wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch in Start and the engine not running. Watch out for the fan blades when you do this test, since the engine will be cranking.
    If you do not find any chaffed or broken wires, high resistance connections or loose pins in the wiring harness, replace the PIP sensor or the distributor.

    The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it.

    To remove the gear, first you drive out the roll pin that secures the gear to the shaft. Then you get to press the gear off with a hydraulic press or puller. When you go to press the gear back on, it has to be perfectly lined up with the hole in the gear and shaft. I have been told that the hole for the pin is offset slightly from center and may require some extra examination to get it lined up correctly.

    Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a remanufactured unit for about $75 exchange
    PIP problems & diagnostic info
    Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

    See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.
    #4
  5. blackhawkkid308

    blackhawkkid308 New Member

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    #5
  6. blackhawkkid308

    blackhawkkid308 New Member

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    Originally Posted by blackhawkkid308 [​IMG]
    well i took the msd coil back and exchanged it and put the relay control module on it and guess what. it quit again in about the same place as the other 2 times.
    what the heck could be wrong with this car? its killing me. i can't even chance it to go out of town to visit my 84 year old dad.
    bhk308

    went and bought a reman distributor at autozone and the car idles better but when you have the spout out to try and set the timing the car won't start.
    put the spout back in and it runs. does that mean anything. i am still lost

    ---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackhawkkid308 [​IMG]
    my 94 gt shuts down after extended run time. no fire. it has a new msd coil, cap, and rotor. it has a new pole pick up in the distributor. i have replaced the module also. after it sits for a half hour or so it will fire right up. i am researching the module controller that bolts to the overflow jug bracket. i need some input before i spend the $205.00 plus tax for this relay module at advanced auto parts. i just recently installed a new cam, cold air induction, under drive pulleys, throttle body, headers, and a new shifter but the car was acting up before and after the new parts.
    bhk308


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackhawkkid308 [​IMG]
    well i took the msd coil back and exchanged it and put the relay control module on it and guess what. it quit again in about the same place as the other 2 times.
    what the heck could be wrong with this car? its killing me. i can't even chance it to go out of town to visit my 84 year old dad.
    bhk308

    went and bought a reman distributor at autozone and the car idles better but when you have the spout out to try and set the timing the car won't start.
    put the spout back in and it runs. does that mean anything. i am still lost
    #6
  7. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Start the car with the SPOUT in. Remove it once it is running and you are ready to set the timing.

    Did you read the PIP problems & diagnostic info I posted? Check out the link to wellsmfgcorp.com and the PDF documents that describe a problem very similar to yours.
    #7
  8. blackhawkkid308

    blackhawkkid308 New Member

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    if i pull the spout the car won't start, if i pull it while running it dies.
    #8
  9. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    You still have PIP sensor problems. Read the Wells PDF documents....
    #9

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