95 Gt Problems After Rebuild

[jonnie8881]

so I have a 95 GT that I just finished rebuilding the top end with some machined parts and it was all running amazing! well I finally ordered myself the sct 4 bank eliminator from bama performance and threw in my 24 lb injectors to go with the tune that I ordered....well now its running HORRIBLE! it's almost like the spout connector is out or...like the timing is being retarded as the rpms begin to rise. I replaced all my plug wires b/c the #1 wire was broken in two pieces at one end...have an MSD ignition and rotor cap on the stock dizzy. im not sure what it could be other than maybe a crushed lifter due to the higher tension comp cam springs I have on it now, or maybe a broken timing chain. also about 80% of the time the car wont start unless I take the SPOUT connector out...then it fires right up.

to simplify- before tuner was installed(cleaned the computer as per bama instructions with alcohol and scraper) the car would run on a stock tune even with the 24lb injectors;just really rich. after putting in the chip with the tune it runs like the spout connector is disconnected at like 12 degrees advance.
I don't think its the tune though, because it does it even with the chip removed.

as a way to test the spout connector, how would I set it up to run a "lock out" timing? just set the timing at about 23 BTDC with the spout connector out and leave it out?

also I've already followed guides on here on how to restab the dizzy and I did move the rotor one tooth over and It helped slightly.

 

[jrichker]

Question: what did you do in the top end rebuild? Aftermarket heads, different intake manifold, aftermarket cam, new MAF to match the 24 lb. injectors: What did you add that was not OEM factory parts? List everything you did and the brand name and model of the added parts .

What was the last thing you did before it started to run poorly?

We have to know what was done to get an idea of a place to start.

 

[jonnie8881]

ok, I have stock E7TE heads with stock size manley valves, comp cam springs(.6 lift potential), 5 angle valve job and blueprinted valve stems, the heads are also ported and polished out to a fel-pro 1250 intake gasket which is something like 1.6X0.8. for the intake its a gt40 off of an explorer(not the tubular cobra intake) with the lower port matched to the same fel-pro gasket as the heads. ford racing 24lb injectors. stock cam, MAF, and TB(I know I need a bigger one).

now, before I put the tune on the car ran fine even with the 24's in, a little laggy because it was rich as all hell, but strong. so I put the 19's back in to save the gas. well now I have the 24's back in, deleted EGR about 2 hours ago, bypassed the SMOG pump, have the chip in and ran the 87 octane performance tune and there are dead spots in my RPM range at about 1900-2200 and 3900-4400. the EGR and SMOG functions are deleted via the chip in the computer side of things.

I hope that's enough to give you an idea of whats going on.

 

[jonnie8881]

update**

just did some self checks in the computer
KOEO got code 511
KOER got code 172
cylinder balance test came back with 2 and 8. (not 20 and 80 but i'll assume cylinders 2 and 8 are the problems here)
2 of the injector "hats" if you will, were cracked when I installed the injectors so i'm assuming that those were put in cylinders 2 and 8 causing the imbalance....

 

[jrichker]

You'll need either an aftermarket MAF calibrated to work with 24 lb. injectors or a custom tune to run the 24 lb. injectors without encountering problems.

Clear the codes by disconnecting the battery for 5 minutes, or by using the instructions that came with your code reader. Then drive the car for 15-30 minutes to get it to re-lean the adaptive settings.and dump the codes again. That may clear the 172 code. If not, then here is the code 172 test path.

Code 41 or 91 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Revised 29-Sep-2013 to add back in a clogged crossover tube as cause for code 41

Code 41 is a RH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 91 is the LH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

Code 172 is the RH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 176 is the LH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.

Disconnect the O2 sensor from the harness and use the body side O2 sensor harness as the starting point for testing. Do not measure the resistance of the O2 sensor , you may damage it. Resistance measurements for the O2 sensor harness are made with one meter lead on the O2 sensor harness and the other meter lead on the computer wire or pin for the O2 sensor.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:

87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer. Using the Low Ohms range (usually 200 Ohms) you should see less than 1.5 Ohms.

87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Dark blue/Lt green wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Dark blue/Lt green wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Dark Green/Pink wire on the computer pin 43

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 29

94-95 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 29 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 27 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 29
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 27

There is a connector between the body harness and the O2 sensor harness. Make sure the connectors are mated together, the contacts and wiring are not damaged and the contacts are clean and not coated with oil.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

Code 41 can also be due to carbon plugging the driver’s side Thermactor air crossover tube on the back of the engine. The tube fills up with carbon and does not pass air to the driver’s side head ports, Remove the tube and clean it out so that both sides get good airflow: this may be more difficult than it sounds. You need something like a mini rotor-rooter to do the job because of the curves in the tube. Something like the outer spiral jacket of a flexible push-pull cable may be the thing that does the trick.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.


Code 15 or 511 - No Keep Alive Memory power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (Memory Test
Failure). The voltage to the Keep Alive Memory (KAM) is missing (wiring problem)
or the KAM is bad. The KAM holds all of the settings that the computer "learns" as
it operates and all the stored error codes that are generated as a result of
something malfunctioning while the engine is running. Use a voltmeter to check
the voltage to the pin 1 on the computer - you should always have 12 volts. No
constant 12 volts = bad wiring. If you do always have the 12 volts, then the KAM is
bad and the computer is faulty.

If the computer has to "relearn" all the optimum settings every time it powers up,
the initial 5-30 minutes of operation may exhibit surges, poor low speed performance,
and rough idle.

Note that some aftermarket chips will cause code 15 to set. Remove the chip,
clear the codes and retest.

Before replacing the computer, remove the battery ground cable for about 20
minutes. This will clear all the codes. Retest after several days of running. If the 15
code is gone, then don't worry about it. If it is still there, then you get to do some
troubleshooting.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2
Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Try running with the car without the SCT4 bank eliminator. Be sure to disconnect the battery ground cable when you remove the SCT4 bank eliminator That will also clear the codes. Then drive the car for 15-30 minutes to get it to re-lean the adaptive settings.

 

[jonnie8881]

I already know that the O2 sensor is reading lean because I have 3 exhaust leaks around the header-collector area but BBK longtubes with a shorty X-pipe are in the shopping cart and just waiting on funds. so that explains that code ,sorry I thought I mentioned that but I supposed not.... back to the running issue. so I've been contacting BAMA consistently and having a conversation with the very helpful and patient Ryan Mcdonald. when I changed my 15,000 mile old plugs i noticed the #2(#3 in my mind) plug was soaked in fuel(same one that failed the cylinder balance test along with #8), so he pointed me towards injectors. I tested the injector resistance against a few others at 14-14.4 ohms consistently and the #2 injector checked out at 14.3. the wiring harness for that injector, however, when I probed it with a regular test light seeing as I don't have a noid light, did not pulse, it stayed solid while the car was running....so i'm shopping around for wiring harnesses now. btw thank you for that amazing wiring diagram, definitely save that picture for future reference.

but today while driving I noticed something, it spits all the way up to about 4k,4200 rpms...then that car turns into a rocket ship...so maybe its a dirty connection or something? does voltage increas0e to the injectors with RPMS? also, running the car without the tune wards the same results as with the tune. I've tried the factory tune option on the tuner and removing it entirely after taking the battery and putting it about 6 feet away from the car because I would prefer to keep my computer safe...

 

[jonnie8881]

also the tune accounts for the 24lb injectors

 

[jrichker]

I'm fixing to dump a lot of very technical stuff on your plate, so you may want to print it out and highlight the sections that relate to your current problem.

Fuel injectors inoperative, one or more injectors either on all the time or will not squirt.

Revised 27-Jan-2008 to include expanded testing for proper power to injector wiring

Tools needed: Noid light, Multimeter (volts & ohms), 10 MM socket &
extension, & ratchet.

Note: Do all of the steps and do them in order. The results of the subsequent tests are based on the prior tests being successfully passed.

1.) Each injector has a red power wire to provide power to the injector. Turn the ignition switch to Run and remove each injector electrical connector and use the multimeter to check for 12 volts on the red wire. Each injector should have 12 volts +/- .5 volt. More voltage is always better than less voltage. No 12 volts on a singe injector and the wiring for that injector is broken inside the engine fuel injector harness.

No 12 volts on all injectors:
A.) Check for a bad connection at the 10 pin connector. Check for 12 volts at red wire on the MAF or TAD/TAB solenoids mounted on the aft side of the passenger strut tower. Good 12 volts there and you have a wiring problem with the 10 pin connectors or associated wiring.

See the graphic for the location of the 10 pin connectors:

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.

The injector power pin is the VPWR pin in the black 10 pin connector.

B.) Bad ECC power relay. The relay is on top of the computer, it provides power to the fuel injector system.
It is somewhat difficult to get to, since it requires you to remove the computer from its 2 bolt mounting.. If the relay or socket is bad, you will not have 12 volts on any of the red wires in the engine compartment or to pins 37/57 on the computer. The pins 37/57 are the main power feed to the computer.

C.) Blown fuse link – The blue fuse link for the computer is up near the starter solenoid. Check for no 12 volts on the ECC relay socket or computer black/orange wires. No 12 volts and the fuse link is blown open. If the fuse link blows, there is no power for any of the computer functions.

D.) Bad wiring. Broken or damaged red wire to the chassis side of the 10 pin connectors.



Some basics about the computer:
Remember that the computer does not supply power for any actuator or relay. It provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

2.) Get a noid light form AutoZone or other auto parts store, or even better a set of them.

This set is from http://www.toolking.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=12492 and costs about $25.

3.) Use the noid light to determine that the injector pulses and isn’t stuck in the on position.
It you have a set of them install all of them and compare the pulse intensity. Install the noid lights, turn the ignition switch to Run and crank the engine. A light that doesn’t pulse and stays on has a short to ground in the computer side of the circuit. That can be either a wiring fault or a failed computer.
If this is the case, remove the passenger side lick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
There is one 10 MM bolt holding it in place. Pull the connector all the way out of the computer so that you can see the computer side pins.


[b]See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.[/b]
[img]http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/attachments/salt-pepper-10-pin-connectors-65-jpg.68512/?temp_hash=3ef2497fff29a7a9daee955cf93e5805
[/img]

Use the list from the graphic below to find the fuel injector pins for the injectors that didn’t turn the noid light off.

4.) Set the multimeter to low scale Ohms and measure between the computer ground located below the computer and the suspect fuel injector pins. You should see greater than 100 K Ohms resistance. If you see less than 100K Ohms, the wiring between the injector and the computer has an internal short to ground and needs service.
Check the harness and look for damage, kinks or frayed spots.

5.) A single noid light that never turns on is either a wiring fault, or a failed computer. Either the injector has no DC power or the computer has failed and cannot switch the injector circuit to ground. Determine if the injector has power by using the multimeter to check for 12 volts on the red wire on the suspect injector connector. No 12 volts and you have a wiring fault.
Check the harness and look for damage, kinks or frayed spots. Check the 10 pin salt & pepper shaker connectors for bent pins, corrosion and damage.

See http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=85 for some help on cleaning and tightening up the 10 pin connectors.

If none of the noid lights flash and you have 12 volts at each injector, check to see that you have good spark. Before you even think about replacing the computer, see step 6.

Next check the fuel injector wiring end to end. Each fuel injector has a red wire (power) and an non-read wire (computer controlled ground). Set the multimeter to low ohms and measure each non red fuel injector wire from
the fuel injector connector to the matching pin on the computer connector. You should see less than 2 Ohms. More than that means a bad connection or bad wiring.


6.) Use an ohmmeter set on the low resistance scale and measure the resistance of each injector across the two contacts inside the electrical connector. You should see between 11-16 ohms. More or less than that is a bad injector. Next measure between either one of the contacts and the metal on the injector body. You should see greater than 100,000 ohms. Don’t hold the metal probe tips with your bare hands when you make this measurement. It will give incorrect results if you do.

Once you have determined that the suspect injectors have good power and good wiring, the computer is the likely suspect, since a ground is required to complete a circuit and make it function. The computer provides the ground: if doesn’t, then the noid light will not flash. If the noid light stays on, the computer has an internal failure.

7) If you have gotten this far, then the problem is likely ignition related. Remember the noid test using all of the noid lights? All of them were supposed to be equally bright. Since you have already tested all the electrical side of the fuel injector circuit, the one remaining common item is the pip sensor inside the distributor. A failing pip sensor, damaged shutter wheel or bent distributor shaft could all cause the pulse delivered to the injectors to be faulty. A bad pip sensor will cause all the injectors not to fire and you will have no spark. Dumping the codes will usually show a code 14.


8) Spark plugs indicate one or more cylinders not firing: use the multimeter to measure the resistance of the spark plug wires. The wires should measure 2000 ohms per foot of length. A 2 foot wire would be 4000 ohms and a 3 foot wire would be 6000 ohms. Some Taylor and Accel wires have metal cores and will measure much less: that’s OK.
Next examine the spark plug wires very carefully for burn spots, cracks and damaged insulation. One good thing to try is to start the engine while the car is a very dark area, open the hood and look for sparks or blue glow. They indicate the electricity is leaking out of the spark plug wires.

Thanks to Tmoss & Stang&2birds at www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ for some of the graphics

Thanks also to www.oldfuelinjection.com for some of the graphics.

 

[jonnie8881]

this is a 95, not a speed density car, you know this, right? but anyways, I picked up a noid light set and the harness in question lights up about twice as bright as the other injector that I checked and the "pulse"(if that's what you want to call it) is more of a dimming than an on/off action. ohm reading from either of the injector terminals to the metal housing on 2 of the injectors including the one in question was too much for my voltmeter to read. also, I thought the PIP sensor was done away with when MAF sensors came into play? oh and i'm not really sure where the salt and pepper shakers are in this car. I see a black connector that looks like it could be the one I need but theres no white one. i'm going to see if any trash got in the computer connector when I had it out now though. is it safe to put some dielectric grease in that before reinstalling it in the computer?

 

[jrichker]

this is a 95, not a speed density car, you know this, right? but anyways, I picked up a noid light set and the harness in question lights up about twice as bright as the other injector that I checked and the "pulse"(if that's what you want to call it) is more of a dimming than an on/off action. ohm reading from either of the injector terminals to the metal housing on 2 of the injectors including the one in question was too much for my voltmeter to read. also, I thought the PIP sensor was done away with when MAF sensors came into play? oh and i'm not really sure where the salt and pepper shakers are in this car. I see a black connector that looks like it could be the one I need but theres no white one. i'm going to see if any trash got in the computer connector when I had it out now though. is it safe to put some dielectric grease in that before reinstalling it in the computer?

Yes, I know that 95 Mustangs are all Mass Air Flow fuel injection systems.
Check the custom title "SN Certified Technician" and post count. I earned that by spending 13+ years here leaning about 5.0 Mustangs and helping others fix them. I have been fixing and driving 5.0 Mustangs for over 22 years.

The PIP sensor Is mounted in the bottom in the distributor. It triggers the ignition system and provides the computer with timing information to fire the injectors. It has no relationship to the MAF(Mass Air Flow) functions.

Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $25-$50 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select books and then select search. Use the ISBN number (without dashes or spaces) to do a search. Try searching using M-1832-Z1 instead of the ISBN number if you don’t get any positive results. You may only be able to find a used one, since the book is as old as the cars it covers. Or you order it from your Ford dealer as SVO part no. M-1832-Z1.


Use the ISBN number and your local library can get you a loaner copy for free. Only thing is you are limited to keeping the book for two weeks. It is very good, and I found it to be very helpful.

 

[jonnie8881]

i'll definitely check that book out. and I was just making sure! wasn't trying to insult your intelligence or anything; it's very obvious that you know what you're talking about. haha. but anyways....i'm an idiot...I pulled the computer out today and right when I removed the connector I found the problem....a fur ball had gotten inside the computer connection and wrapped around, you guessed it, the #59 pin in the connector. so..it's all fixed now and she's running stronger than ever with this tune...now to save for my longtubes and custom exhaust..

thank you so much for all the help I really appreciate it.

 

[jrichker]

I am glad you got it fixed. Persistence combined with knowledge when chasing problems usually results in a solid fix.