96-98 vs. 99-04?

TGJ said:
The PI heads have very little to do with the Power Gain. The newer motors have more aggressive cams, better intake and a more aggressive tune. The biggest choke in the NPI motor was the intake, not the heads. People who have done just the PI Cam and PI intake swaps ARE MAKING the same RWHP as a 99+ car is with the same mods. NPI cars that do the PI headswap as well see a increase in Compression which makes another 10 - 15 RWHP than a 99+ car does.
There you go...so many of you are stuck on headswaps. Use your cash to swap to the PI intake and aftermarket cams...very nearly the same gains as the headswap and you save money in the long run.

01Steeda said:
heck I know of a car with aftermarket cams that isnt making what I was with just pullies and exhaust.:shrug:
Don't forget those dyno numbers you may be refering to are on a Mustang Dyno. :nice:

See sig and garage for my mods.
 
  • Sponsors (?)


COramprat said:
There you go...so many of you are stuck on headswaps. Use your cash to swap to the PI intake and aftermarket cams...very nearly the same gains as the headswap and you save money in the long run.

Don't forget those dyno numbers you may be refering to are on a Mustang Dyno. :nice:

See sig and garage for my mods.


:lol: I like your SIG... I am really impressed with your times, that proves you really only need to do cams and the intake to run with and beat 99+ cars. :cheers:

BTW what kind of tires were you running to get those 60's

I need to get some better tires so I can get a 1.9 60 foot. I have done 2.0's on these tires before but I did it on a night with horrible air and was trapping 98-99 mph :(

well I just added a x pipe and I think i might install my control arms somtime this week and go back up.. I need to relax and get a better launch and get a 2.0 out of these tires..
 
TGJ said:
The PI heads have very little to do with the Power Gain. The newer motors have more aggressive cams, better intake and a more aggressive tune. The biggest choke in the NPI motor was the intake, not the heads. People who have done just the PI Cam and PI intake swaps ARE MAKING the same RWHP as a 99+ car is with the same mods. NPI cars that do the PI headswap as well see a increase in Compression which makes another 10 - 15 RWHP than a 99+ car does.
I would think the heads would have a lot to do with it, from experience at the track. I was running 13.8 in my car last year, and an NPI SN95 with a dyno tuned centrifugal blower and 5-speed was running low 14's. I would think the blower should help overcome the shortcomings of only cams and intake.:shrug:
He was not a happy camper.
The stock ports on the NPI heads are tiny. They can be ported though to be as good as ported PI heads.
 
svttech76 said:
:lol: I like your SIG... I am really impressed with your times, that proves you really only need to do cams and the intake to run with and beat 99+ cars. :cheers:

BTW what kind of tires were you running to get those 60's
MT Drag Radials...the bias ply one on mmy old 17" split spokes. My best sixty was a 1.83 launching at 3500...can launch higher but I need my tranny right now.

I need to get some better tires so I can get a 1.9 60 foot. I have done 2.0's on these tires before but I did it on a night with horrible air and was trapping 98-99 mph :(
That's the best I got on street tire also.

The weather was really good the night I did the 13.8's...actually the adjusted times were in the 13.7 range so it wasn't quite optimum. Right now I doubt I could get into 13's with it being so hot. :(
 
MaxedGT said:
I would think the heads would have a lot to do with it, from experience at the track. I was running 13.8 in my car last year, and an NPI SN95 with a dyno tuned centrifugal blower and 5-speed was running low 14's. I would think the blower should help overcome the shortcomings of only cams and intake.:shrug:
He was not a happy camper.
The stock ports on the NPI heads are tiny. They can be ported though to be as good as ported PI heads.
Its not the heads!!!!!
If that guy swapped to a PI intake and PI cams he would not only add over 50 rwhp but also now be making power up to 6,000 rpms instead of getting choked off at 4500rpms.
Centi's on stock NPI's only get you like 260-280rwhp...just a intake/cam swap will get that same car to 330rwhp area.
 
I didn't know you could swap the PI intake on NPI heads. I thought the NPI intake wouldn't fit the PI heads, unless you have one of those kits. I thought the PI heads, intake, and cams were a package deal that coudn't be interchanged with the NPI stuff. Aren't the PI cams made to match the PI heads??..:shrug:
Why not swap to the PI heads also instead of just intake and cams? It's apparant that the PI heads outflow the NPI heads and porting the NPI heads will get you the flow of the non-ported PI heads. A ported set of PI heads will kill a set of ported NPI heads. So why limit your potential by choking off HP with the NPI heads? Plus, people are selling the entire package dirt cheap...
 
Another :nice: for the use of Non-PI heads. I went with a PI head swap with my engine, but that's only because my Non-PI heads were damaged when the previous owner squeaked it. Had they not been, I would have ported them and just dressed them up with PI cams and valves.

I went with another set of PI heads mainly because of their cost. For what I paid for my PI heads, I couldn't have bought another set of NPI's and later model cams and valves for the same price.

When I'm done with this car, I'm pulling the whole powertrain out and dropping it into a '96-'98 Mustang. Love that body style. :nice:
 
Another for the use of Non-PI heads. I went with a PI head swap with my engine, but that's only because my Non-PI heads were damaged when the previous owner squeaked it. Had they not been, I would have ported them and just dressed them up with PI cams and valves.

I definatly agree with the use of NPI heads,.. but they need to be ported, they can be ported to outflow ported PI heads. I am just saying with stock NPI heads and PI intake cams.. your not gonna make the same power as a similiarly modded PI car. It wont happen.

and ramprat I am not bashing your car. you have done a great job with it, and I always tell my wife how much I like it. but be serious. you had more mods than I had when you ran those numbers. All I had was flowmasters and underdrives. you had CAI, plenum, Tb, prochamber, exhaust and a tune. I dont wanna put down on your car. your making guys around here look again,.. but be honest. a pi intake and cams wont make the same power as a pi headed motor with the exact mods.
 
lover said:
I didn't know you could swap the PI intake on NPI heads. I thought the NPI intake wouldn't fit the PI heads, unless you have one of those kits. I thought the PI heads, intake, and cams were a package deal that coudn't be interchanged with the NPI stuff. Aren't the PI cams made to match the PI heads??..:shrug:
Why not swap to the PI heads also instead of just intake and cams? It's apparant that the PI heads outflow the NPI heads and porting the NPI heads will get you the flow of the non-ported PI heads. A ported set of PI heads will kill a set of ported NPI heads. So why limit your potential by choking off HP with the NPI heads? Plus, people are selling the entire package dirt cheap...

PI cams- 100.00 New
PI Intake- 200.00 New
-------------------- = 300.00

PI heads swap - 1350.00 New

So your spending 1050.00 for 10HP!
Im planning on getting the comp 268H cams and a PI intake.
268H - 550.00
PI Intake - 200.00
So for 750.00, I will make more power than a head swapped car. And my compression won't be to high for a S/C in the future.
 
01Steeda said:
I am just saying with stock NPI heads and PI intake cams.. your not gonna make the same power as a similiarly modded PI car. It wont happen.

Bull****, 3 cars that didn't and a tonne of cars that are. If you what to say I am posting bad info, you better start bringing some supporting threads. I have debated this in the past and brought quite a few threads to support what I am saying. I don't feel like doing that right now.

My TBird:

Removed Air Silencer, 03 GT MAF, 04 GT intake Tube, PI intake, PI cams, 3800 Stall TC, 3.73 TL, Custom 2.5" Exhaust, Custom SCT Tune, Hoosier QT Pro, 14.11 @ 96 MPH

Friends Tbird:

03 GT MAF, 01 GT 4.6L( PI ), C&L intake, BBK 75mm TB, 3500 Stall TC, 3.90 TL, Custom 2.5" Exhaust, Custom SCT Tune, Hoosier QT Pro, 14.56 @ 94 MPH

Cars were side by side. My Tbird is heavier because of the stereo equipment in the trunk that his car didn't have. Also, my car has 160,000 kms on the motor, the other TBird, got that motor with 2000 kms on it, when we ran, he had about 16,000 kms on the motor.

I have not had my TBird dynoed but going off the 1/4 times, my car is making more power. I bought the car new, so nobody swapped PI heads on to it.
 
COramprat said:
MT Drag Radials...the bias ply one on mmy old 17" split spokes. My best sixty was a 1.83 launching at 3500...can launch higher but I need my tranny right now.

That's the best I got on street tire also.

The weather was really good the night I did the 13.8's...actually the adjusted times were in the 13.7 range so it wasn't quite optimum. Right now I doubt I could get into 13's with it being so hot. :(


with your trap speed and 60's I am surprised your not closer to a 13.6 or so
 
Bone Stock 99+'s put down 230rwhp.

That still is more than a 96-98 with PI heads/PI cam (NPI heads). Plus the examples given had "bolt-ons" to help out...a bone stock 99+ does not.

The PI heads help out, quite a bit...they aren't just for looks. Ever seen them side by side, I think that'll answer your questions?

Where can I get PI cams and PI intake new for $300 dollars total?

I have beat a zo6 before, that doesn't mean I make more power than it does.

Will the PI intake fit on non-pi heads with no changes or "adapters"?
 
There is no need for adapter's when using the PI intake on NPI heads. Most of the mods required to use a PI intake on an NPI car are required whether you use NPI or PI heads, the only one difference when using NPI heads is that you need to use RTV on either certain coolant or the intake ports depending on the gasket used. There is adapter kits out there.

That said, a 99+ 5 Spd car makes 230 RWHP, the auto's are from about 210 - 225. Using the test car I referred to that an upgraded MAF over the stock TBird one, made 220 RWHP through an auto and IRS. All that car had was a Lightning MAF, PI Cams and PI Intake with a tune. That car was bang on with what a tuned PI motor makes when swapped into a TBird/Cougar.

I am not going to continue to argue with you guys. Do a search on posts by me to see where I have been getting the info from. I suggest you start bringing data to refute it instead of what you believe or don't.
 
5spd GT said:
Where can I get PI cams and PI intake new for $300 dollars total?

You can find "new" PI cams all day long for 75.00-125.00, and Come see me I'll sell you a brand new Dorman PI intake for 200.00.....:nice:
We have 3 in stock at all times, Ive sold about 12-15 so far this year.

BTW the Dorman intake already has both tapped holes for the sensors.
 
5spd GT said:
Got any dyno numbers of a NPI car with just PI intake and cams making 230rwhp in a 5spd?
QUOTE]

Came close to the 230rwhp mark.... '98GT with 5sp with PI cams and PI intake checking in here with no tune, running 87 octane. Other (known good) perf. mods installed are pulleys, catted X. Iffy ones are TB tube and FRPP catback. All else is stock i.e. TB, Plenum, timing, stock tune etc...

Stock 99-'03 GTs with 5sp. that I've personally seen bone stock on the same dyno have been right around that number. With similiar mods as mine with essentially the only difference being the PI heads themselves, have been in the approx. 10-15rwhp above.


Here's a shot of my chart with SAE numbers on a dynojet (STD label is error in chart as per the shop)....
523851_15_full.jpg
 
Look all that really needs to be said is.... if your gonna stay N/A spend some money and you can find a good set of used PI heads for a reasonable amount...if your gonna look into a SC ot turbo set up save the 500-1250$$ keep the NPI heads and put money to the Power adder. but yes FOR SURE get a PI intake. I think other than a 3.73 or up rear end its the only power you really feel on the SOTP dyno.
 
So what else does the Dorman Intake have besides tapped holes for sensor? More cfm? More cross sectional flow?

Why does the PI cam's differ $50 bucks? Where do you find them at?

LI98GTstang - They seem to be about 20-25rwhp higher with those mods.
 
get the MMFF articles called RED HEADED step child. it's an excellent chronicle of low power from even ported NPI. now if you get frpp heads npi it's a different story.

do a little research. put PI's on npi like i did, and you will outppower 99+ mod for mod. enjoy it.