Added 20hp with C&L combo! Dyno results here

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by stylin99, Jan 20, 2004.


  1. stylin99

    stylin99 Chrome Yellow Nightmare Founding Member

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    Wow, what a day. I got to spend an enormous amount of time on the dyno with Project Brightmare, our test mule. We were removing the MAC Cold Air Kit and testing the gains of a C&L 80mm MAF kit, and then the gains of the C&L Plenum and Accufab throttlebody separately.

    There is tons of data to go thru after 24 runs. That's right, 24 dyno pulls. :banana: So bare with me for a few days while I analyze everything. But here are the initial results. More to come later.

    These are naturally aspirated numbers. We did do nitrous runs, but the numbers weren't up where they were supposed to be so I'm checking to see if any lines are clogged, or other complications and we'll test that at another time.

    Thanks goes out to Dale at Custom Performance for taking a few hrs out of his day to help with the dyno tuning. His knowledge was critical to the success of our gains today.

    1.) Baseline runs:
    (MAC CAI, stock MAF meter, stock Throttle body (TB), stock Plenum.)
    AVERAGE of 3 runs: 232.6 hp / 259.0 tq
    Notes: Running pretty rich at 11.5 A/F

    2.) Removed all MAC parts, installed C&L 80mm Mass air meter, with included big-ass K&N air filter, and C&L intake tube.
    AVERAGE of 3 runs: 243.0 hp / 278.9 tq
    GAIN OF avg 10.4 hp / avg 19.9 tq !!
    A/F running at 13.8 on top end.
    MAC CAI was previously causing rich condition, so this was not only allowing more air, but correcting air/fuel readings giving the double whammy.

    3.) Installed Pro-M Remote Optimizer (about $170). This unit plugs in with MAF to adjust lean vs. rich with the turn of a dial. This was the only way to adjust the A/F ratio. A Very much needed tool for dyno testing. There were no significant gains with just adding this since we're already borderline lean, but this was to setup for the additional parts in a few minutes.

    4.) Next installed C&L Plenum with Accufab Throttle body. We tested both 70mm and 75mm, and gains were slightly better with 75mm. So that's what we kept on the car.
    It took several runs to fine tune the A/F with this full setup now. Once the Optimizer was dialed in for perfect harmony, we got this data:
    AVERAGE of 3 runs: 251.9 hp / 286.1 tq
    GAIN OF 19.3 avg hp and an ungodly 27.1 avg tq !!


    What does all this technical garble mean you ask? It means my seat of the pants meter is directly connected to the big damn smile across my lips, that's what it means.

    This car is definitely stronger. Even with extra wgt in the car, it hauls ass now. I should have done this long ago instead of the Mac CAI, but I didn't know what to get at the time, and some of this stuff wasn't out yet. So my hopes are that by posting this kind of info, it will give you better insight on what new power mods are your best options so you don't waste your money.

    It's hard to find good dyno results that are conclusive, and I now hold that powerful data right here.
    :cheers:


    Oh, and if you're into peak numbers this might be of interest. Everything above was based on averages so there were no fluke runs ruining the accuracy. The difference in the best peak baseline run and the peak final run was 22.6 horses and 28.1 ft/lbs of torque.
    #1
  2. stylin99

    stylin99 Chrome Yellow Nightmare Founding Member

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    Here's a few photos of what it looks like. I may try to polish the aluminum parts later on, if I get brave enough to try it.

    [​IMG]

    Remote Optimizer. Just barely turn the adjustments to change a/f.
    [​IMG]

    Nitrous Nozzle port C&L gives you.
    [​IMG]
    #2
  3. Snarf

    Snarf New Member

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    Wow those are awesoem numbers! I am DEFINETLy going to be getting yself a set of these mods asap- wow!
    #3
  4. san~man

    san~man O-G Founding Member

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    Nice numbers Steve

    So the combo of the plenum, TB, inlet pipe, and MAF made the power?

    BTW, have a link to that remote optimizer?
    #4
  5. stylin99

    stylin99 Chrome Yellow Nightmare Founding Member

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    San Man, here's the link for the Optimizer:
    http://www.pro-flow.com/Product pages/remote_optimizer.htm

    It is critical to tune this combo after the changes because of so many new components. You don't want it too lean or you'll hurt the engine, and too rich will waste your money on the setup and not get the good results.
    #5
  6. CottonBurnerz

    CottonBurnerz Banned

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    So, from step 2, (Removed all MAC parts, installed C&L 80mm Mass air meter, with included big-ass K&N air filter, and C&L intake tube)

    to step 3 which you installed accufab TB and C&L plenum

    you gained avg of 8.9hp and 7.2 tq?

    In conclusion, the inlet tube + K&N filter + 80mm MAF gives more gain than the TB and plenum? (avg 10.4 hp and 19.9 tq)

    nice numbers anyhow :nice:
    #6
  7. wms004

    wms004 Founding Member

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    Before adding my Dragon Plenum I was at 13:1 at 4k rpm, and about 12.2:1 at 5k rpm.. I'm soon going to add a C&L inlet tube and Accufab 75mm t/b.. Do you guys think it would be necessary to have my Autologic chip tuned? I'm going to have it dynoed anyways.. but I don't want to have to pay the tuner to come to the dyno if its not necessary. Do you guys think the added mods would have me too lean? I'm already tuned to 91 octane.

    educated opinions would be much appreciated, thanks

    -wade
    #7
  8. wms004

    wms004 Founding Member

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    but remember he was going from a Mac setup which probably gave him less power than stock
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  9. CottonBurnerz

    CottonBurnerz Banned

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    The only MAC part he got on there was the CAI. Couldn't be much of a difference..could it?
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  10. stylin99

    stylin99 Chrome Yellow Nightmare Founding Member

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    The Mac CAI robs power by richening the air fuel mixture.(90 degree bend into fender causes this)

    So the gains from the MAF and inlet tube are a double whammy because we're seeing gains from both the air flow of the new parts as well as the A/F ratio changes.
    #10
  11. Beau

    Beau Founding Member

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    good test, and hope you can get the graphs up soon :)
    #11
  12. ttown

    ttown Founding Member

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    Good advise the key to him making more HP with the C&L was:

    Running pretty rich at 11.5 A/F

    This is what my 02 GT was doing and it picked up quite a bit with the addition of the C&L (black in tail pipe). But here is a dyno of my Mach that had a good tune (A/F-13) with the C&L and the Mach's MAF electronics(A/F-15!!!!!). Bottom line is the MAF is big enough IMO, your running rich and I'd buy some type of turner (preditor) or get a tune to correct this issue.

    http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17226
    #12
  13. JonJon

    JonJon Founding Member

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    :nice:
    That Remote Optimizer looks neat, thanks for the link :)
    #13
  14. bergs

    bergs Member

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    what if you put on the plenum/throttle body and mass air and didnt do anything to the computer and kept the stock injectors? would this be bad for the car? if you used a super chips programer or something like that would that be enough to get the air/fuel ratio right? i want to do these mods but i dont know anything about the actual tuning of the computer.
    #14
  15. Highroller

    Highroller Founding Member

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    so you have a C&L Mass Air Meter and your using a PRO-M Remote Optimizer?? did you have any problems?? even on their site they say "Unit works best when used in line with a Pro-M mass air meter."

    I only ask because I have a C&L meter and I was wondering if this product would be the way to go
    #15
  16. jesusphreak

    jesusphreak New Member

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    stylin99 what was the a/f ratio and power numbers before you adjusted them?
    -edit- before you adjusted the A/F ratio... sry wasn't very clear -edit-
    i have the C&L MAF and BIg K&N with a C&L plenum and frpp 70m TB, i was wondering if i should take off maf due to messing with a/f ration too much. THanks for any input (i don't have C&L tube though, still factory tubing inbetween)
    #16
  17. Drew1287

    Drew1287 New Member

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    I think I may get that optimizer. It should allow enough adjustment to go to my 24lb injectors.
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  18. 00BlackBeautyGT

    00BlackBeautyGT Member

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    Just wondering how big is that filter in inches?
    #18
  19. ttown

    ttown Founding Member

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    Our GT's seem to have a rich A/F from the factory. The early Mach's were running rich also and many were getting mid 260's to 270RWHP. Ford seemed to have change the tune around June of 03 and most are making somewhere around 280+ now.

    I guess theres 2 schools of thought.

    1. add parts to make you A/F right (13-13.2), but I think most think it's the part not a bad tune for there power pickup. I'd check it though.....

    2. Get a custom tune, a diablo preditor or superchips handheld unit to adjust the A/F thoughout the RPM range. The hand helds will let you do other stuff as you mod.

    IMO the only safe way to know what a part does is put it on a dyno with A/F.
    My GT tailpipe went from black crap in them to clean as a whistle in a few weeks after the C&L leaned the car out to what it should have been to start with. The Mach's tailpipe has always been very clean from day 1.

    Making sure your car's A/F is a must IMO before putting on parts for HP and it must be checked and maybe tuned if it get too lean. I can't say I'm an expert on this but have learned a few things on my 4.6's.
    #19
  20. Beau

    Beau Founding Member

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    i heard that the MAF readings will override the ECU readings
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