Engine Air Pump Delete Good Or Bad?

[88LX5.Oh]

catless here and stinks to high heaven. what the deal is? i would love to leave them off like it is but you can't run the car without your clothes and the garage/yard being saturated in it.

What's your exhaust set up? How it's set up is key to having a stink or not. Dumps will most likely cause a stinky car.


My '92 Bronco has no cats and sometimes I get a stinky exhaust smell coming into the cab and that's if the wind blows just right to blow the exhaust inside.
If you have tail pipes exiting the rear of the car, you shouldn't get a stink. If you have a stink with tail pipes, check your hatch/trunk weather stripping.

 

[jcgafford]

What's your exhaust set up? How it's set up is key to having a stink or not. Dumps will most likely cause a stinky car.


My '92 Bronco has no cats and sometimes I get a stinky exhaust smell coming into the cab and that's if the wind blows just right to blow the exhaust inside.
If you have tail pipes exiting the rear of the car, you shouldn't get a stink. If you have a stink with tail pipes, check your hatch/trunk weather stripping.

100% stock, minus the cats of course. BBK "H" pipe is the only change. All smog operational and hooked up. I am not speaking of fumes in the car. I am talking about exhaust that is so thick with stink I have to shower and change clothes after running the vehicle while working on it for even a few minutes.

 

[mikestang63]

I've owned mustangs for 35 years - well before we even had smog equipment and cats- and never had that happen. Bypass the smog pump with a short belt or rip off the smog pump and hoses. You are pumping air into an exhaust with no cats. See if that helps.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

You must not have been alive before 1975, because cars didn't have cats before that, and didn't stink when in tune. Troofs

Not "Troofs" Noobs347. I love old cars. I've been told I could take one apart and reassemble it with two wrenches and the right screwdriver. Anyway, wasn't it you who recently told me to look up old postings first? (Maybe it was someone else who very helpfully found exactly I needed on 351's from cir. 2007.) This is not a very old posting that exactly addresses what the OP is asking.

See the previous discussion "Stinky Stang" at
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/stinky-stang.850125/#post-8665439
Since you and ratio411 do not believe my own experiences and how long I have been alive - (AKA how old my mother is ) 1. you need to know my other car has a carb car that smells much better than a 5.0 without cats and an air pump while the carb car gets better mileage! 2. and I'll quote Jrichker - you all trust him on mechanical/electrical issues for good reason.

"wythors said: ↑
Put the smog stuff back on. I personally know three people that have gotten tired enough of the stink to put it all back together. Lack of cats and air pump = unburned fuel fumes coming out the tail pipe.

Jrichhker said
"He's right.

Either get a filter for your nose or fix the smog equipment....

Removing the pollution control equipment from a 5.0 Mustang is a bad idea. All you have accomplished is to make the computer mad and spit codes. The pollution control equipment all shuts off at wide open throttle, so the HP losses from it on the car are 2-5 HP. The catalytic converters may soak a few more HP than that. None of the pollution control equipment reduces the HP enough to cost you a race in anything but professional drag strip competition. I seriously doubt that you will be in the final runoff on “Pinks”, so leave the smog equipment in place and make sure it is working correctly..."

AND

"Newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired. Use them on an 86-93 Mustang and you will slowly kill them with the pollutants that they are not designed to deal with."

It seems to me Ford should have had the EEC IV idle cleaner and leaner. All I can figure out is technology came a long way since 1987, like he new 5.0 and it's output. If your removed smog stuff and did not smell unburned gas, you are lucky. But I would not count on it ever again. Save the system or send it to me. I fully agree with jcgafford's nose and am collecting the best old parts I can get to reattach the rest of the smog items.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

I remember some of the first non-California Ford cars with cats when they were new. They stank very strangely and smelled worse than a well tuned car from the year before. (I will not admit to my age either way in that year.) That's why so many folks removed them - anything that smelly and hot could not be good! Well, that and fear of a grass fire under the car from a hot catalytic convertor was another good excuse to ditch one.

 

[jcgafford]

I've owned mustangs for 35 years - well before we even had smog equipment and cats- and never had that happen. Bypass the smog pump with a short belt or rip off the smog pump and hoses. You are pumping air into an exhaust with no cats. See if that helps.

i've tried it with the pipe hooked to the exhaust and unhooked. perhaps its as simple as running rich because of some tired O2 sensors. but if not the cats are going back on.

 

[Noobz347]

Not "Troofs" Noobs347. I love old cars. I've been told I could take one apart and reassemble it with two wrenches and the right screwdriver. Anyway, wasn't it you who recently told me to look up old postings first? (Maybe it was someone else who very helpfully found exactly I needed on 351's from cir. 2007.) This is not a very old posting that exactly addresses what the OP is asking.

See the previous discussion "Stinky Stang" at
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/stinky-stang.850125/#post-8665439
Since you and ratio411 do not believe my own experiences and how long I have been alive - (AKA how old my mother is ) 1. you need to know my other car has a carb car that smells much better than a 5.0 without cats and an air pump while the carb car gets better mileage! 2. and I'll quote Jrichker - you all trust him on mechanical/electrical issues for good reason.

"wythors said: ↑
Put the smog stuff back on. I personally know three people that have gotten tired enough of the stink to put it all back together. Lack of cats and air pump = unburned fuel fumes coming out the tail pipe.

Jrichhker said
"He's right.

Either get a filter for your nose or fix the smog equipment....

Removing the pollution control equipment from a 5.0 Mustang is a bad idea. All you have accomplished is to make the computer mad and spit codes. The pollution control equipment all shuts off at wide open throttle, so the HP losses from it on the car are 2-5 HP. The catalytic converters may soak a few more HP than that. None of the pollution control equipment reduces the HP enough to cost you a race in anything but professional drag strip competition. I seriously doubt that you will be in the final runoff on “Pinks”, so leave the smog equipment in place and make sure it is working correctly..."

AND

"Newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired. Use them on an 86-93 Mustang and you will slowly kill them with the pollutants that they are not designed to deal with."

It seems to me Ford should have had the EEC IV idle cleaner and leaner. All I can figure out is technology came a long way since 1987, like he new 5.0 and it's output. If your removed smog stuff and did not smell unburned gas, you are lucky. But I would not count on it ever again. Save the system or send it to me. I fully agree with jcgafford's nose and am collecting the best old parts I can get to reattach the rest of the smog items.

So what are you trying to say? That cars with no catalytic converters or smog pumps HAVE to smell bad? If so then that's just not true. A car correctly tuned for the removal of these items will not stink.

One other small note: OBDI cars ( the 79-93 that this particular forum is about ) do not have after-cat O2 sensors.

If you pull the catalyst from a stock vehicle and tune without re-tuning that vehicle for their removal then yes... you will likely create a scenario where your garage will smell like unspent fuel.

Granted, that there are a TON of folks out there who think that the mere act of removing cats and pump from an otherwise stock vehicle will net them some awesome street advantage with no other mods. There's also people out there that think that fart-cans will make them faster too.

OEM cars that COME WITH smog pumps and cats are digitally TUNED to have pumps and cats. Just removing the smog and cats without re-tuning (just like any other engine mod) can/will cause some undesired effects.

For that matter... pull your OEM cats and replace them with some free-flowing 3-way cats... You have a 50/50 chance of STILL making it stink if you've not re-tuned for the variation in equipment.

 

[Bullitt95]

So what are you trying to say? That cars with no catalytic converters or smog pumps HAVE to smell bad? If so then that's just not true. A car correctly tuned for the removal of these items will not stink.

My Stang has no smog pump, no cats, and NO STINK.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

So what are you trying to say? That cars with no catalytic converters or smog pumps HAVE to smell bad? If so then that's just not true. A car correctly tuned for the removal of these items will not stink.

One other small note: OBDI cars ( the 79-93 that this particular forum is about ) do not have after-cat O2 sensors.

If you pull the catalyst from a stock vehicle and tune without re-tuning that vehicle for their removal then yes... you will likely create a scenario where your garage will smell like unspent fuel.

Granted, that there are a TON of folks out there who think that the mere act of removing cats and pump from an otherwise stock vehicle will net them some awesome street advantage with no other mods. There's also people out there that think that fart-cans will make them faster too.

OEM cars that COME WITH smog pumps and cats are digitally TUNED to have pumps and cats. Just removing the smog and cats without re-tuning (just like any other engine mod) can/will cause some undesired effects.

For that matter... pull your OEM cats and replace them with some free-flowing 3-way cats... You have a 50/50 chance of STILL making it stink if you've not re-tuned for the variation in equipment.

I think you got most of my points just fine. I do plan on adding free flowing new cats in (with the air hose ports so I do not ruin the new cats). Ford did not tune it to run lean or balanced at idle, (seems stupid unless they want the cats hot at all times!) I think jrichker's comment about the second after cat O2 sensor was clearly about newer, better computers, like OBD II. As I stated in the other thread, not including the cats, my missing thermactor pump, hoses valves, etc. weighed only 12.6 lbs. Most of us could loose that much from the driver's middle and be better off. We'd also fit under the dash and hood better when it came time to work on the car.

And although this thought will put this post under the tuning forum, I bet I could get more power and better mileage with a "new tune" for my combination. I just do not know where to start!!!!! I'd probably have to drive 4 hours one way to get to a tuner's place worth the bucks. I do have access to a roller chassis dyno and can add a wideband o2 sensor.
BUT WHAT BRAND IS THE EASIEST tuning system TO USE AND GET INTO?? I can look up all posts on that brand after I know where to start. If the moderator wants me to repost that question under the Tuning Forum, I will. (Getting into modifying car computers is a steep learning curve for a carb person, and I appreciate the help there.) I'd like something I can use my laptop and make simple adjustments on when my combo changes. But if I have to get a chip that plugs into the service port and needs sent in everytime I make changes, I will.

 

[Noobz347]

7991LXnSHO

IMO... the EASIEST tuning to get into is the Anderson PMS. In order for it to work for you though, you will need a wideband installed as well. I run an Innovate wideband and am seriously considering getting their new(er) LM-2 so that I have a sensor on each bank.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Anderson PMS? So PMS can be a good thing? (I can not believe I typed that!)

 

[Noobz347]

Anderson PMS? So PMS can be a good thing? (I can not believe I typed that!)

LOL... they're spendy and don't provide the same level of control as some of the other options out there but I've not had much trouble getting the tune right with it. You can also get it with a base tune from Anderson so that it's already close when you unbox it.