reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Ahhh, when you said "plug and play" I immediately thought electronics. I follow you now.
Anybody heard anything about this carb style EFI?
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Ahhh, when you said "plug and play" I immediately thought electronics. I follow you now.
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The Dynatek setup look cool! Actually, it looks just like a Weber setup (including the look/finish), which is the cool part about it. I wonder where the injectors are hidden? Other Weber style throttle bodies I've seen had the injector on the outside, where it enters at an angle, much like on most multipoint EFI manifolds.
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
For a second there I thought I had found a great advantage to the Retrotek system -- if it craps out on you somewhere far from home you could simply grab a carb from any auto parts store, pop it on, and go. Then I realized that you'd have a high-pressure fuel system in place. Anyone know of a work-around?
well, i guess you could set it up with a dual tank switch and have a seperate low pressure elec. or a stock mechanical pump routed in one system and the high pressure system on the other, just "Y" the valve in between the high pressure pump and the tank. it's a thought anyway.
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Well, yeah you could build the whole fuel system in a way like you were planning on the EFI failing. I was just saying that it would be cool to be able to self-rescue with a quick trip to any auto parts store.
well in that case you could grab a carb and one of those cheap little Facet/Purolator/mr gasket fuel pumps and some rubber line and go at it. those pumps are only about 30 bucks or so and you'd already have it wired, just pull the EFI pump and swap in the cheapie
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Well check this out. I just talked to Mark at Retrotek and he was very knowledgeable and helpful. He said that they converted a Mopar to this system on Horsepower TV and they left the factory mechanical pump on there, mounting the electric pump between the mechanical one and the throttle body. The mechanical pump keeps the electric one primed and then the electric pump just draws fuel straight through the mechanical. The point is, in case of a failure just pop on a carb and cut power to the electric pump and you're good to go.
That being said, he said he's got over 90 systems on the road on all kinds of crazy engines and has had zero failures.
It's a speed-density system that uses a wideband O2 sensor to self-tune after a pre-loaded map gets you close. You tell him about your engine and he'll pre-load a map that will most likely be good to go forever. It comes with software that makes it easy to remap, but he said that the vast majority of users will never have to go there.
I'm getting pretty interested!
That being said, he said he's got over 90 systems on the road on all kinds of crazy engines and has had zero failures.
It's a speed-density system that uses a wideband O2 sensor to self-tune after a pre-loaded map gets you close. You tell him about your engine and he'll pre-load a map that will most likely be good to go forever. It comes with software that makes it easy to remap, but he said that the vast majority of users will never have to go there.
I'm getting pretty interested!
gonzothegreat
Member
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Yeah, he told me that it's 8-10 weeks right now.
Also, they're coming out with a cast body soon that will knock somewhere around $300 off the price.
now that's what i'm talking about. i kinda hope it has a choke style airhorn though, to really help with that carb'd look. of course, leave the choke buffterfly out of it though.
mrmustangman357
Member
- Feb 11, 2007
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That wouldn't work. There would not be enough flow through the dead electric pump to keep it going. If it is a vane type pump (which I think they all are), the vanes would not move and no flow would occur. You can tee off the pump's outlet and send it to the outlet of the electric pump and use a check valve, or do what most other people in this situation would prolly do, which is just hook the damn thing up correctly anyway if they had to go get a "spare carb" anyway. Sounds like a plan to failure, which is something that you wouldn't have to do anyway if the system was robust enough to have a "limp" mode.
I sure wish this system ran on 5 psi deadheaded so it would be a simple carb swap and wiring affair. I would be much more interested. The new mechanical EFI pumps are quite lame in that the pressure bleeds off, so you need to crank it 2-3 seconds to fire the engine. I like the fresh, "well tuned" setup that starts immediately when fired. Call me crazy. Maybe they can use a float bowl with 5 psi in it and a check vlave to prevent leakdown? I can see alot of improvements from the consumer side that can be made. Maybe I want my cake too
mrmustangman357
Member
- Feb 11, 2007
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but I suppose it would take a rather high Cv to flow the amount you need on a system like that with only 5 psi. Maybe then a high pressure self regulating mechanical pump can be used but the carb should have float bowl accumulator that regulates the fuel inlet and retains pressure there. I personally think 2-3 seconds to crank the car for it to start is unacceptable. The returnless EFI mechanical pump has potential, but that bleeddown is a significant con IMO
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Well, you wouldn't be able to see that with an air cleaner on anyway. There's stealth, and then there's super-stealth!
i'll take super-stealth for $1000 Alex. seriously, if they made that system so that it looked identical to an old school holley, even with the air cleaner off i'd jump on it. i've actually been seriously considering buying an old Ford OE holley and modifying to be a little more modern, IE; electric choke, billet base plate, etc. and ditching my EFI plans for 2 reasons, stealth and cost mostly stealth. or one of these quick fuel carbs
http://quickfueltechnology.com/home_2.htm
previously i'd been planning on running the holley commander 950 TBI system. i'd even contacted Mass Flo to see if there system could be converted to a TBI style with a dual plane intake and one of the 8 injector accell DFI throttle bodies and the guy got his feelings all hurt about it.
Loup-garou
Founding Member
Price Motorsports in Indiana makes intake manifold adapters which allow the 351C/400 to use 351W intakes. Should work just fine with the 5.7 EFI lower intakes. I've seen these conversions before in the Pantera forums; they often use a short-runner aftermarket upper intake to match the Cleveland's high-rpm breathing. The rest of the setup, though, is 5.0 Mass Air parts (sensors, harness, MAF meter, etc.) I'd think that the '95 Cobra R intake parts would work well on a 351C with the adapters.
The adapters cost approx. $250.00.
they make adapters for everything, they even have one that adapts a ford 460 intake to cadillac 472/500 engine!!!
65 fastback
Founding Member
I'm interested in these units too. They look like a quality piece and I would love some feed back from someone that is running this set up. But that $1,900.00 doesn't include their "returnless fuel system", which is another $300.00.
Retrotek EFI kit - $2,200.00
There is, also, the Holley Commander 950 series throttle body EFI systems -
http://www.holley.com/types/Commander 950 4-Bbl Throttle Body systems.asp , for about $600.00 less
Holley Commander 950 EFI kit - $1,600.00
And the Edlebrock Pro-Flo system, which includes an intake, fuel rails and 8 injectors -
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf_ford.shtml - for slightly more then the Retrotek piece.
Edelbrock Pro-Flo EFI system - $2,500.00
I haven't added up the costs for the Mass-Flo kit, but I expect with all of the pieces this is the most expensive kit -
http://www.mass-floefi.com/
Tim
Retrotek EFI kit - $2,200.00
There is, also, the Holley Commander 950 series throttle body EFI systems -
http://www.holley.com/types/Commander 950 4-Bbl Throttle Body systems.asp , for about $600.00 less
Holley Commander 950 EFI kit - $1,600.00
And the Edlebrock Pro-Flo system, which includes an intake, fuel rails and 8 injectors -
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf_ford.shtml - for slightly more then the Retrotek piece.
Edelbrock Pro-Flo EFI system - $2,500.00
I haven't added up the costs for the Mass-Flo kit, but I expect with all of the pieces this is the most expensive kit -
http://www.mass-floefi.com/
Tim
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
True. Don't let the fact escape though that it is indeed a returnless fuel system -- less plumbing, less noise, longer pump life.
Butt ugly. I know this is totally secondary to function, but one of the cool things about the Retrotek system is that it is so stealth. It appears people are willing to pay for that.
Somewhat apples-to-oranges, since Pro-Flo is a port EFI system vs. a throttle body EFI system. Much more visible plumbing and severely limits air cleaner choices. Can't use a stock air cleaner bucket at all if you're going for low-key.
Totally apples-to-oranges. Same reasons as the Pro-Flo, plus on top of that it's a mass-air system using a Ford EEC-IV ECU. It's definitely the most expensive at about $3k plus fuel system, but you get the benefits of a factory ECU and mass-air's inherent self-tunability. I have installed several Mass-Flo systems and love them. I have had problems with the TFI distributors you have to use though.
I think the target market for the Retrotek system isn't the guy trying to do EFI in the least expensive way possible. It's for the guy who wants a trick EFI system that looks almost indistinguishable from a carburetor. You can preserve the old-school look under your hood, if that's what floats your boat.
^^ I think you hit the nail on the head, the above is the reason I started the thread.
The old school looks (but EFI) and relative simplicity of installation makes it appealing to me and probably many others.
I saw on Retroteks website that they had an upcoming article in Fords and Mustang magazine. Maybe this will shed a little more light on it. I missed the Horsepower show on Spike where they tested it. I know it's pricey but I'm still interested in this system.
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/news_item.php?nik=8
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/news_item.php?nik=8
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