Anyone with Weber 48 IDAs?

[amorrow]

I've heard people talk of differences between the new ones and originals...any reason to go with originals other than originality (don't care about that, and I know they can be very difficult and costly to obtain)? Looking at new Weber setups, I've came across sources like www.webercarbsdirect.com and Inglese ( www.inglese.com ).

This raises a question...I see there's quite a difference in price for a complete 48 IDA setup (Weber Direct for ~$3000, Inglese ~$4500). So, is there any reason to pay more and go through Inglese? Are their setups the same (carbs, intake, linkages, etc)? I was wondering if their expertise is really what one would pay for going through them (I know tuning can really be involved)...anyone have any experiece? Any help/suggestions is greatly appreciated!

FYI...I currently have a mild (Edelbrock Performer Package) '68 302 I'm going to put in the Fastback initially, but am looking at building an more aggressive but still streetable 302-based (331 or 347) stroker once the car is done and has run awhile with the 302. I know Webers are suitable for any engine, but I'm wanting them mainly for the stroker.

 

[SoCalCruising]

There's a guy here in town that does Webers. He really only recommends them on solid cam motors. Two reasons: 1) he can use lash to tune each cylinder and 2) the Webers really help breathing as the RPMs go up. At least, this is the story using the full racks that he puts together. Throttle response is truly wicked. I've been toying with this myself. I don't think I'll do it unles I swap in a solid roller cam. On the bright side, they're worth 40-50hp when done right. Tuning is the key.

I doubt that there is any difference between the original stuff and what is new today. I know a guy who was offered $8K for his original rack and turned it down, and that was 5-6 years a go. Our local guy installs and tunes them for right at $5K.

 

[mustbereel]

webers

I have webers on my new 347. The new 48IDAs are made from the original design with supposedly some improvements for drivability. (48IDFs are supposed to be street friendly but not for highly modified engines). My setup came from Inglese but I have since seen the webercarbsdirect site and wonder how there can be such a difference in price. My engine is set up with roller rockers and I expect them to operate well. Because of their short direct runner Webers improve bottom end torque and throtle response and because of their huge CFM capacity they help the top end. Tuning is everything and in order to do it right you need a good parts bin of jets, metering rods and venturis. Other than sychronizing the carbs and adjusting the idle circuit tuning is done by changing parts. Once set up they do not require constant adjustment.

I chose webers because I think they look better than anything else on a sbf. Also, ever notice that in SCCA a 289 Cobra with Webers competes in the same class as a 427 Cobra? I think for max power a single 4bbl can be made to make more power but only with a radical cam. (Webers don't work well with radical cams.

Unfortunately I have not yet been able to start my engine. Maybe in a few weeks, then I'll have tuning and driving feedback.

SoCal, I may need a good Weber guy for tuning. Any chance you can pass on the name of the guy you know?

Brad

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/mustbereel/Reels347doneb.jpg

 

[washMO66]

I have webers on my new 347. The new 48IDAs are made from the original design with supposedly some improvements for drivability. (48IDFs are supposed to be street friendly but not for highly modified engines). My setup came from Inglese but I have since seen the webercarbsdirect site and wonder how there can be such a difference in price. My engine is set up with roller rockers and I expect them to operate well. Because of their short direct runner Webers improve bottom end torque and throtle response and because of their huge CFM capacity they help the top end. Tuning is everything and in order to do it right you need a good parts bin of jets, metering rods and venturis. Other than sychronizing the carbs and adjusting the idle circuit tuning is done by changing parts. Once set up they do not require constant adjustment.

I chose webers because I think they look better than anything else on a sbf. Also, ever notice that in SCCA a 289 Cobra with Webers competes in the same class as a 427 Cobra? I think for max power a single 4bbl can be made to make more power but only with a radical cam. (Webers don't work well with radical cams.

Unfortunately I have not yet been able to start my engine. Maybe in a few weeks, then I'll have tuning and driving feedback.

SoCal, I may need a good Weber guy for tuning. Any chance you can pass on the name of the guy you know?

Brad

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/mustbereel/Reels347doneb.jpg

Dude,

Aluminum Dart block, Webers, Brad ass my friend, Brad ass.

That is killer but one question, why a dart block if it is not a highly modified motor? Weight? What kind of HP/TQ are you expecting out of that set up?

-Cool & the gang dude, cool as hell.

-Todd

PS - "check out the big brain on Brad" (sorry couldn't resist)

 

[mustbereel]

dart block

Weight. It's all about weight. My goal was to get 50/50 weight dist. The engine assembly, including dist, carbs, alt., waterpump, pulleys, starter, fuel pump and flywheel, weighs about 365lbs. I also have fiberglass hood, fenders and lower front valance. By my calculations I have removed 200lbs from the front while the rear has changed very little. This should get me close to my goal. The engine would weigh less with one Holley but I really wanted Webers.

As far as power I expect 400-450 for both hp and tq at the flywheel.

Brad

 

[washMO66]

Figured as much, looks neat all aluminum with those AFR's. PS - What's with the late model pan? Based on your Avatar this is going into a classic?

Good luck

 

[amorrow]

Thanks for the info. I really have my mind set on Webers, and plan on building an engine around them, so if a solid roller cam would work best, I suppose that's what I'll end up going with. And wow, a good setup is worth 40-50hp...that's impressive, I didn't realize they were good for that much power!
Mustbereel, that's one nice engine! In fact, I'm probably going to go with a similar setup (Dart block, AFR heads). The aluminum block is definately overkill for me, but man does that look great, and I wouldn't mind shaving a few pounds even on a primarily street-driven Shelby Clone. Thanks for the info, and keep us posted once you fire it up!

 

[mustbereel]

webers

The late model pan is to clear the Rod and Custom Mustang II suspension. That's a 7 qt Canton road race pan. I modified it a little so I could move the engine back another inch.

The aluminum block saves about 80lbs. Of course it is ridiculously expensive but at some point I got so deep into this project that there was no turning back.

I should update that avatar. The car is nearing completion. It's only been 16 months since I started!

Brad

 

[amorrow]

Mustbereel, did you buy your engine from DSS in St. Charles, IL? I know many who go with the Dart/AFR combo buy from them. They're about 10 minutes from my home and I'm probably going to buy my engine from them. Just curious if that's where you got your Dart block and AFR heads.

 

[amorrow]

Awesome! Just saw the pic...that light blue is one of my favorites...reminds me of the blue Shelby used on a few of his competition Cobras.

 

[mustbereel]

engine

The engine was built by Arron at Bad Ass Racing Engines in Sonoma, CA. He builds all kinds of interesting engines. I specified the Dart block, AFR 185s, all forged internal and Webers. I let him choose the cam, valve train, etc... I wanted a bullet proof engine that would run hard on 91 octane. I figure if I get bored with this car I can pull the engine and put it in some future project. Check out his website for some awesome pictures and good tech info. If you go to the gallery and then engine pics you will see my engine third from the top.
www.badasscars.com

Brad

 

[SoCalCruising]

Nice looking motor. 400hp. Ha, ha. 450hp is more like it, and maybe more with that rack.

Dana Williams is the tuner. www.carbwiz.com will allow you to call or leave email. I believe that Dana is in Utah until SoCal cools down a bit. He may be taking email there, though. He used to own Riverside Carb, but now works out of a nice shop at his house in Grand Terrace, CA (near Riverside). He doesn't seem to be very concerned about radical cams. My cam is bit too much for my Stealth/holley HP setup. When I asked him if a full rack of Webers would solve the problem, he said "Ooooh, yeah." He set up a set on a 377W full race motor in town and it was awesome.

Back in the day, Ford rated the HiPo engine at 345hp when equipped with Webers; 271hp with stock manifold and carb. That higher rating may have been with headers, but still a heafty increase over the higher Shelby rating with his Tri-ys, larger carb and hi-rise intake. Oh yeah, they make power. When the 377W (above) was built, it had a 4-barrel through breakin. The Webers were worth 60 hp, minimum, on that motor.

 

[mustbereel]

webers

Thank's for the link. I may try to tune them myself but Riverside is just a short drive for expert tuning. Isn't it pretty hot in Utah now too?

Interesting info on the cam. I always heard that with too much cam Webers spit fuel back out through the carbs.

I would love to have 450+ but don't want to set myself up to be disappointed. I know it will have more power than I need.

In addition to the power and throttle response Webers are supposed to have a unique sound. I'm getting excited. Time to burn the midnight oil and get this thing done.

 

[SoCalCruising]

Dana has a place in Cedar City. That's about 10* cooler than Salt Lake City. Pretty nice.

 

[iskwezm]

Thank's for the link. I may try to tune them myself but Riverside is just a short drive for expert tuning. Isn't it pretty hot in Utah now too?

you can also check out nelsonracingengines.com. he does mainly forced indcution(blowers/turbos) but also does a lot of webers and he's located in Chatsworth up in the valley.

Very nice set up