I was just wondering if anyone out there knows the best way to set our cars up for auto cross. What would be the best suspension kit to buy. I also want to know what kind of rims and tire combo would be the best for just on the track.
Autocross
- Thread starter ClayStang
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You should probably let us know what kind of budget you are looking at. The best would probably be a Griggs system but they are very expensive. The best tires would be a slick, something like a Hoosier A6 or R6, but you would need a separate set of wheels for that. I am sure you can get a lot of information, but you need to provide a little as well.
imfamousjim
Member
- Mar 12, 2009
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yeah there's tons of different setups... do you want the absolute best the car can run? or do you want to pick a class and make it the best in that class rules?
i'm running mine in stock class, which pretty much only allows a cat back exhaust, good struts/shocks, and whatever tires will fit stock sized rims. it's my way to keep me from doing suspension mods i can't afford. either way i'm still new to autocross, so seat time is by far the most important thing.
if you have a stock car, i'd say start with exhaust and nice dampers so you are still flexible enough to run in any class, and finding a nice tire/wheel combo to race on (which is pretty class dependent so that will take planning) will give you a pretty nice car
i'm running mine in stock class, which pretty much only allows a cat back exhaust, good struts/shocks, and whatever tires will fit stock sized rims. it's my way to keep me from doing suspension mods i can't afford. either way i'm still new to autocross, so seat time is by far the most important thing.
if you have a stock car, i'd say start with exhaust and nice dampers so you are still flexible enough to run in any class, and finding a nice tire/wheel combo to race on (which is pretty class dependent so that will take planning) will give you a pretty nice car
Well i am already moded and im looking into a steeda suspension kit. I want to keep running my stock rims but with autocross tires since i already bought a set of aftermarket rims for a daily driving. I want to keep so it is good to drive everyday and then take it out on the track on the weekends. If I stay with the stock rims i would have to run a small tire like a 245/45/17 which is 25.6 inches tall i think.
My budget is about 5000 for suspesion and then 8000 for power i am already looking into a edelbrock e-force supercharger.
Let me know what u guys think.
My budget is about 5000 for suspesion and then 8000 for power i am already looking into a edelbrock e-force supercharger.
Let me know what u guys think.
walter
Founding Member
I liked autocrossing out of the box, but it's even better with my Roush suspension, J&M lower control arms, and watts link. 
If you are going to have a dedicated set of rims to use just for autocross you can go with a pretty soft tire, like a nitto NT01, yokohama advan A048, or something like that. The steeda suspension is probably a good choice with the adjustable Tokicos. As far as the Edelbrock, I think I would look at something else. A lot of people seem to have problems getting them to run correctly. I am not sure how much power you are looking to make, but the Ford Racing Whipple seems to be pretty reliable and leaves you with some room to grow if you want more power. It is capable of making more power than the stock bottom end can handle.
Make sure the rules allow you make the modifications you want to make. Otherwise you might get bumped into a class you will not be competitive in. I run H&R race springs with Koni's. I have an extra set of wheels and run Toyo 888's in the dry and Toyo T1R's in the wet. I have the Ford strut tower brace and Competition Engineering LCA with rod ends. I have been consistantly 3-5 seconds ahead of the 2nd place car at every race this year.
You've got a few choices as far as SCCA classes go:
FS - "stock" - allows catback, drop-in air filter, replace shocks, swaybar, lighter weight wheels (must be same size as available on car), and R-compound tires
ESP - "street prepared" - any exhaust mods, may replace intake, underdrive pulleys, tuner, can change to an aftermarket clutch, can replace seats, any springs (may switch to adjustable coilovers too), camber plates, strut bars, radio + AC delete allowed, any brakes available on that model car, can change shocks and swaybars, may replace panhard bar with a better one or change to different type, any size wheel, R-compound tires, can add rear spoiler / wing.
SM - "street mod" - wouldn't call it unlimited, but tons that can be done. internal engine mods, can supercharge or turbo, coilovers, watts links, etc are all fair game. MUST retain interior. this is a big $$$ class. R-compound tires.
STU - "street tire "unlimited"" - more or less same rules as ESP, but with Street tires. I believe also has a tire width rule (check the rule book)
CP - full out racecar. gutted interior, nearly unlimited engines (weight of car based on cubes), able to move suspension points + add 3link / torque arm / panhard / watts link. R-compound or Bias Ply slicks. This is where the real fun is!!!!!
LOOPHOLE. If you have a California Special equipped car you can legally put on the FRPP handling package and power pack to make a "shelby clone" and run in FS. The Shelby GT is THE car to have in FS right now and should run with the track pack cars. If you can do that, you can go extremely fast and have a lot of fun. This is by far the cheapest of the classes to run.
Mustangs are not very competitive in STU. One of my buddies has an 06 GT and he did "ok" at the Houston national tour against a tour STU crowd, but certainly isn't "the car" to have. He'll be running ESP at nationals...
ESP - Mustang has a ton of potential to play here. BUT keep in mind that a truly competitive ESP car will not be a streetable machine. If you don't want to play (or win) on a national level, you can have a heck of a lot of fun here.
SM - Mustangs aren't competitive until there are rule changes or a breakout of pony cars from the IRS field. But, this is the only place you can play if you supercharge your car...
CP - going off the deepend here on $$ and lose any semblance of streetability, but it's about the most fun you can have with your pants on in a car. Racing nationally one of the best and most supportive group of racers you'll find.
Rule book is available for free to view here: http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_Solo_Rules.pdf
Anyways, sorry for the long post!! Been doing this for 9 years now, the last 5 in CP (doing reasonably well nationally I might add
). Welcome to the sport!
FS - "stock" - allows catback, drop-in air filter, replace shocks, swaybar, lighter weight wheels (must be same size as available on car), and R-compound tires
ESP - "street prepared" - any exhaust mods, may replace intake, underdrive pulleys, tuner, can change to an aftermarket clutch, can replace seats, any springs (may switch to adjustable coilovers too), camber plates, strut bars, radio + AC delete allowed, any brakes available on that model car, can change shocks and swaybars, may replace panhard bar with a better one or change to different type, any size wheel, R-compound tires, can add rear spoiler / wing.
SM - "street mod" - wouldn't call it unlimited, but tons that can be done. internal engine mods, can supercharge or turbo, coilovers, watts links, etc are all fair game. MUST retain interior. this is a big $$$ class. R-compound tires.
STU - "street tire "unlimited"" - more or less same rules as ESP, but with Street tires. I believe also has a tire width rule (check the rule book)
CP - full out racecar. gutted interior, nearly unlimited engines (weight of car based on cubes), able to move suspension points + add 3link / torque arm / panhard / watts link. R-compound or Bias Ply slicks. This is where the real fun is!!!!!
LOOPHOLE. If you have a California Special equipped car you can legally put on the FRPP handling package and power pack to make a "shelby clone" and run in FS. The Shelby GT is THE car to have in FS right now and should run with the track pack cars. If you can do that, you can go extremely fast and have a lot of fun. This is by far the cheapest of the classes to run.
Mustangs are not very competitive in STU. One of my buddies has an 06 GT and he did "ok" at the Houston national tour against a tour STU crowd, but certainly isn't "the car" to have. He'll be running ESP at nationals...
ESP - Mustang has a ton of potential to play here. BUT keep in mind that a truly competitive ESP car will not be a streetable machine. If you don't want to play (or win) on a national level, you can have a heck of a lot of fun here.
SM - Mustangs aren't competitive until there are rule changes or a breakout of pony cars from the IRS field. But, this is the only place you can play if you supercharge your car...
CP - going off the deepend here on $$ and lose any semblance of streetability, but it's about the most fun you can have with your pants on in a car. Racing nationally one of the best and most supportive group of racers you'll find.
Rule book is available for free to view here: http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_Solo_Rules.pdf
Anyways, sorry for the long post!! Been doing this for 9 years now, the last 5 in CP (doing reasonably well nationally I might add
). Welcome to the sport!
ClayStang -
Intake, TB yes. This includes the whole intake, not just the part upstream of the TB.
Internal engine mods (includes cams) = CP or SM
Transmission swaps - Maybe. The update / backdate rule would allow it if the GT500 is listed on the same line as the regular Mustang on this list:
http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_Street_Prepared_Category_by_Manufacturer.pdf
Since it lists "Mustang" this is open to interpretation. More than likely, the GT500 doesn't fall on the same line since it is an AS car in stock form. You can write a letter to the SCCA requesting clarification on the issue and that will settle it so no one can protest you if you do it. If the GT500 ends up on the same line, it also opens up the possibility of using the GT500 engine, axle / gearing, brakes, etc via the update / backdate rule. I wouldn't count on that happening though.
More than likely transmission swap is going to put you into SM / CP.
Intake, TB yes. This includes the whole intake, not just the part upstream of the TB.
Internal engine mods (includes cams) = CP or SM
Transmission swaps - Maybe. The update / backdate rule would allow it if the GT500 is listed on the same line as the regular Mustang on this list:
http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_Street_Prepared_Category_by_Manufacturer.pdf
Since it lists "Mustang" this is open to interpretation. More than likely, the GT500 doesn't fall on the same line since it is an AS car in stock form. You can write a letter to the SCCA requesting clarification on the issue and that will settle it so no one can protest you if you do it. If the GT500 ends up on the same line, it also opens up the possibility of using the GT500 engine, axle / gearing, brakes, etc via the update / backdate rule. I wouldn't count on that happening though.
More than likely transmission swap is going to put you into SM / CP.
Side note, ESP will allow you to run the 3.73s from the Bullitt which makes a big difference coming off the corners, esp since you can raise the rev limiter with a tuner.
walter
Founding Member
Awesome info! Another Houston member too!
How do Roush Mustangs figure into things? They are technically cars you buy from the dealership and are built by the factory up in Livonia M.I.
How do Roush Mustangs figure into things? They are technically cars you buy from the dealership and are built by the factory up in Livonia M.I.
Bullitt, Could I stay in ESP if I had Watts Link instead of a panhard bar. The suspension setup i am looking at the steeda club racer stage one and a techco watts link. The tires i would run would be 245/45ZR17 Nitto NT01 on the stock 17 inch rims.
ClayStang - I think you're fine with the Watts link far as I read the rules. Those tires are good to learn on, down the road you're going to want to step up to something bigger and a real R-compound tire (like a Hoosier A6 or Kuhmo V710).
Walter - I think I've seen your car out there before. I'm in the yellow / orange / red CP Camaro. Missed the event today due to being jet lagged from work, but I make all the other ones!
Walter - I think I've seen your car out there before. I'm in the yellow / orange / red CP Camaro. Missed the event today due to being jet lagged from work, but I make all the other ones!
walter
Founding Member
Have you ever driven at the BMWCCA events at the Police Academy if so we worked a corner together.
I'd be suprised if you could stay ESP with a Watts link. ESP pretty much only lets you replace the upper control arm and the bushing material, you can't even replace the lower control arms. I'm not so certain about the panhard though, I don't recall what the rules stated about that part of the suspension, but I'd be suprised if you could stay ESP with Watts.
SlideWRX
Member
This bears repeating, as a lot of guys throw lower control arms on as a first or early mod. Stock class and ESP don't allow for that.
'Course, until you are winning, no-one is going to care. The only person that will check is you, for most of these mods. If you are close to ESP rules, you might want to run in that class anyway, just to compare times of similar cars on similar track prep. The scca here tends to run all day, so the lot/track can heat up quite a bit during the day, and the line gets cleared of debris.
Personally I generally run TSM (Street Modified Street Tire), since I have a couple friends running stuff there. A lot of modified street cars get thrown into this class since it allows a lot of the stuff that will bump cars out of other classes.
well i already have lower control arms i would have to run street modified then wouldnt i? because if that is so then i will just supercharger it instead of put a intake manifold and a throttle body.
The mods i already have is CAI, tune from brenspeed, lower control arms and relocation brackets, short throw shifter, headers, high-flow catts and x-pipe, bassani exhaust. With these mods and a steeda club racer stage 1 suspesion kit, techco watts link, and a saleen supercharger what class would i be in? If it I have to run in street mod with these mods then i might just do a c&l intake manifold and a single blade whipple throttle body with a vortec supercharger.
Let me know what u guys think because this is my dilemma i want race autocross but i still want to be able to run on the drag strip and be able to drive around town as my daily drive.
The mods i already have is CAI, tune from brenspeed, lower control arms and relocation brackets, short throw shifter, headers, high-flow catts and x-pipe, bassani exhaust. With these mods and a steeda club racer stage 1 suspesion kit, techco watts link, and a saleen supercharger what class would i be in? If it I have to run in street mod with these mods then i might just do a c&l intake manifold and a single blade whipple throttle body with a vortec supercharger.
Let me know what u guys think because this is my dilemma i want race autocross but i still want to be able to run on the drag strip and be able to drive around town as my daily drive.
Regarding the above: 15.8.I
1. Addition or replacement of suspension stabilizers (linkage
connecting the axle housing or De Dion to the chassis, which
controls lateral suspension location) is permitted.
2. Traction bars or torque arms may be added or replaced.
3. A panhard rod may be added or replaced.
4. The upper arm(s) may be removed, replaced, or modified,
and the upper pickup points on the rear axle housing may be
relocated.
5. The lower arms may not be altered, except as permitted
under 15.8.C, or relocated.
Methods of attachment and attachment points are
unrestricted, but may serve no other purpose (e.g. chassis
stiffening). This does not authorize removal of a welded-on
part of a subframe to accommodate the installation.
Based on 1) I take that as you can install a Watts, but I'm not an ESP expert. The control arm bit is covered by 5).
ClayStang - it sounds like you want to autocross, but don't want to build a dedicated autocross car. In that case I'd build it within SM rules as you get a lot more freedom and can add the power you want for the drag strip.
1. Addition or replacement of suspension stabilizers (linkage
connecting the axle housing or De Dion to the chassis, which
controls lateral suspension location) is permitted.
2. Traction bars or torque arms may be added or replaced.
3. A panhard rod may be added or replaced.
4. The upper arm(s) may be removed, replaced, or modified,
and the upper pickup points on the rear axle housing may be
relocated.
5. The lower arms may not be altered, except as permitted
under 15.8.C, or relocated.
Methods of attachment and attachment points are
unrestricted, but may serve no other purpose (e.g. chassis
stiffening). This does not authorize removal of a welded-on
part of a subframe to accommodate the installation.
Based on 1) I take that as you can install a Watts, but I'm not an ESP expert. The control arm bit is covered by 5).
ClayStang - it sounds like you want to autocross, but don't want to build a dedicated autocross car. In that case I'd build it within SM rules as you get a lot more freedom and can add the power you want for the drag strip.
Yeah, it sounds like ESP will let you replace the panhard with a Watts link, but I'm not 100%. But if you've already replaced the lower control arms..welcome to SM
. That's where I am, but that's because I added a supercharger . Which by the way, is a terrible route to go if you are new to autocross because SM can be tough competition and the 300hp we already have is quite a lot for novice autocrossing.BTW The mustang can be VERY competitive in ESP (with new shocks springs), I've seen a couple of guys that are REALLY good with them.
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