Best Cleveland style heads?

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by BlueBossS197, Mar 17, 2008.


  1. D.Hearne

    D.Hearne Banned

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    :rolleyes: But many of us already knew this.:D And it was actually the 429 that was the first result of this, not the Cleveland
  2. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    My point was that while Ford guys seem to think Ford invented the 'semi-hemi' as the BBC was called, they in reality stole it from Chevy just as assuredly as Bill Gates stole the Mac operating system. And we all know which is better.
  3. 180 Out

    180 Out Member

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    For that matter, Chevy's '58-'64 "W" 358 & 409 ci big block heads had splayed valves. But how can Chevy claim originality when the ARDUN head for the Ford flathead V8 had crossflow hemi heads, which Mopar then copied? Nothing new under the sun.
  4. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    The BBC was not a hemi..and Duntov had a lot to do with that design. A true hemi has a 90 degree included valve angle like my XLCH Sportster with a pop-up piston so large it reqauires 45 degrees of igniton to get the flame front over the dome before it reaches tdc and cuts-off the flame. The BBC canted valve solved that problem.
    And where did Mr. Duntov get the idea? Healey, who probably got it from aviation engines. (I assume the 358 was a typo).
  5. brianj5600

    brianj5600 Active Member

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    How about the Chrysler poly head? It was around 1954.
  6. D.Hearne

    D.Hearne Banned

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    Ford didn't "steal" it, they bought a 427 from Chevy and re-engineered the canted valve head design. Chevy wanted to run the 427 in Nascar, only they didn't have it in a production car, Ford and Mopar objected. Ford offered to drop their objection, provided Chevy sell them an engine. And this is what Chevy did. Ford didn't have to steal anything.
  7. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    I thought the Boss 429 was the "semi hemi" - referring to the quench pads on both sides of the combustion chamber... an improvement to the Chrysler design.
  8. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    That was why it was called the 'Shotgun-Hemi'.
  9. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    Kind of like Steven Jobs allowing Bill Gates to see a copy of his operating system and then Gates comes out with 'Windows'. Only diffference is, according to your statement is Ford paid money to see Chevys design, then built their version of it. It was still a Chevy design. Problem with the Chevy was the 3/8" rod bolts that streched and the weak rockers that couldn't hold the 396/375-427/425 cams without breaking (some at 1200rpm in Cooper River Bridge traffic). ZL-1 parts cured that 'little' problem.
    The 427 LeMans Ford was a better engine when you look at the fact it was built to run 48 hours at Lemans. It had 7/16" bolts, shaft mount rockers, cross-bolt mains (but the bearing diameter was too large for sustained 7000+) and side oiling return lines....problem for the guys who were not 'in the loop' with Ford was you couldn't get the parts. So if you wanted to go fast you did it with the Chevy. Fact of life in the 50's,60's and 70's.
  10. D.Hearne

    D.Hearne Banned

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    The "side oiler" didn't have side oiler return lines, the side oiler refered to the main oil gallery that ran down the driver's side of the block and fed the mains first. As for sustained 7000+rpm capability, the side oiler feature cured that problem from the center oiler blocks.
  11. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    Prior to that factroy modification there were externam lines from the valve covers to the oil pan. But it was the internal return that I was speaking of in the LeMans engine.
  12. D.Hearne

    D.Hearne Banned

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    The only 427's that needed return lines to the block were the SOHC 427's. And that was only if you used these on regular non SOHC blocks. These were never run in Lemans. Ford wanted to use it in Nascar but Nascar banned it from the get go. These were mainly used in the early Funny cars and dragsters.
  13. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    I didn't say Ford put those external lines on the engines I saw them on. In my home town the roundy-pounders back in the 60's installed external oil return lines on FE engines. And I'm old enough to have seen Danny Ongias drive Mickey Thompsons Mach-I OHC Mustang Funny Car at Great Lakes Drag Way and Indy in 1969. To address the NASCAR outlawing the engine...if Ford had put the engine in production cars they could have raced them. Kind of like the X-BOSS/Inline-4-barrel carbs and Gurney-Weslake 305's.....Don't offer them to the street...can't race them. Ford complained that the X-BOSS would not meet EPA and that was why they didn't sell it in the car....what did Chevy do?....X-RAM dual 4-barrell, headers and chambered exhaust in boxes in the trunk.

    Ford did some great things on the race track back then...they just didn't give a damn about all the little guys out there. Chevy did....why??? because Chevy knew that what you did at LeMans didn't mean a hill of beans on Saturday night on Bees Ferry Road or Sunday afternoon on Maybank Highway in front of Smalls 66 out on Wademalaw Is., SC.....and what happened out there translated to more money in Chevy's account.

    Do YOU buy a car because the manufacturer wins at F-1 or Indy or Daytona? I don't.
  14. D.Hearne

    D.Hearne Banned

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    Ford didn't put the SOHC's in anything due to the fact that Nascar wasn't going to let em run it, no matter what.
  15. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    You really needed to be around back then to see how little Ford did for the little guy who just wanted to win a race on Saturday night. At Suffolk in 1970 mhe Fords were the 1st to go on the trailers. Same at Piedmont Drag Strip in Burlington, NC and Blaney in SC.
    Just saw an article where a STOCK L-88 made 521 hp @ 6200 rpm. What did Ford have in 1969 to match that? '0'.
    Facts are facts. I argue the facts. Chevy ruled the streets and stock class 1/4 mile. It doesn't matter what some Car&Driver 'test' said, manufacturers slipped in ringers all the time for those tests, what mattered was who took home the money. And more times then not it was a Chevy.
  16. D.Hearne

    D.Hearne Banned

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    :rlaugh: :stupid: So what does that have to do with the price of eggs ?:rlaugh:
  17. brianj5600

    brianj5600 Active Member

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    I wonder why Chevy does not dominate stock class racing?
  18. A67StangMaster

    A67StangMaster New Member

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    Ditto:nice:
  19. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    It's tough to say you're the best when you have to either make certain (Cleveland) stock cast iron heads illegal or add a greater weight penalty to people who use them.

    Mike is such a troll; he must have had a tough Easter because almost every post on this thread was either an insult to Ford stuff, incorrect on the facts or both.
  20. Gud T.B. Blown

    Gud T.B. Blown Member

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    This forum might be a better fit: http://chevroletforum.com/

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