Bigger V8 from Ford

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by Z28x, May 28, 2004.

  1. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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  2. spectravp

    spectravp New Member

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    I doubt this will fit in the mustang and even if it did, there are several negative factors to consider: the added weight; it's only 300 hp, same as the 05 offering, and the engine has been designed from the ground up for a truck. Now, that doesn't mean you can't work it to perform, but with the added weight and so on, it'll take a pretty penny to make it all worth while... that is, of course, if it fit.
     
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  3. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    The 6.2L is not 300HP, that is the 5.4L.
     
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  4. blazinsteed

    blazinsteed New Member

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    Ok the sales manager of a certain dealership who sponsors us told me that they have come up with a lighter 5.4 3-valve to put in the cobra so we will see.
     
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  5. 351CJ

    351CJ New Member

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    This makes sense. The Ford engineering manager at the '05 stang showing told me that SVT is shooting for 400 HP Normally Aspirated for the 07 SVT Cobra. He said they can't do that from a 4.6L and have it meet emissions and reliability requirements. (forget the Cammer, it doesn't meet either). He didn't say, but implied they could get 400 HP from a N/A, 3 valve 5.4. From other comments that he made and rumors that I read elsewhere, I believe that the 4 valve DOHC heads will never appear in another Mustang except for super special models like the Cobra R. The 3V heads are almost as good as the 4V and they are smaller, lighter and cost less to make. The engineer also said that the 05 GT motor was "a VERY robust 300 HP" and that it is a better engine than the 03/04 Mach 1, 4V because it has a better torque band.
     
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  6. Snake03

    Snake03 New Member

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    They already have a 400HP motor. The 03-04 Cobra will pull 365-380 HP at the wheels, bone stock. It's not 390HP, got to be ~430 or so.

    And....that may be a tough sell, now that they've opened the door to factory supercharging. It seems to me that a 400hp N/A car is going to be much harder (read more expensive) to mod for additional horsepower. Spend $1200-1500 on an 04 and your pushing 500 RWHP. What will it cost to do that with a N/A engine? I suspect it won't be with simple bolt-on's.

    The current Cobra is one of the best cars that Ford has ever produced, and much of that is due to it's incredible potential for additional (and cheap) horsepower and torque.
     
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  7. spectravp

    spectravp New Member

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    Whoops! You are correct!
     
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  8. mustang sallad

    mustang sallad New Member

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    that's sweet, i was wondering if they were gonna come up with something to compete with the ram hemi and the silverado SS. there was gonna be quite the gap between the 300hp 5.4L and whatever the lightning ends up putting out to keep up with the SRT-10. Nothing like a couple pick up truck hp wars with a buck a liter gas prices.
    Ahhh... fast pick up trucks... its so wrong and somewhat pointless. but man, i sure can't wait to see the new lightning, that concept looked sweet.
     
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  9. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    Hmmmm I wonder what this will prompt from the other camps? The DCx guys are crowing like roosters about the 6.1 Hemi this thing will now trump that thing even.

    The power these guys are putting out is great I really do feel now I can kind of understand how guys felt with the Big three putting out such incredible machines(hell add the foreign manufacturers in there too and it gets even more interesting). Too bad the gas prices might just kill the whole dang thing again soon.

    Oooohhh I just thought of something. What if they are developing a large sedan platform to replace the Panther cars and stick this new 6.2 V8 in it. 300C killer perhaps?
     
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  10. blazinsteed

    blazinsteed New Member

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    Twin screw for the lightning with 500 hp conservative. And it wouldn't be too hard to keep the eaten on the cobra. with the gto going to be 400 + and the new 300 and the chevy variant of the manaro and 500 hp corvette they have the sales to back it up and do it again. They won't site idle especially with all the hype of the 03-04 model. i see a 475 hp model out soon rated at 430 from the factory
     
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  11. Scot_94GT

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    It's about f'ing time Ford started making larger engines again. Of course, the Mustang will probbably get the shaft yet agiain. It has been the trend for the last 25 years, so why not another 25?

    Mustangs never got the 351 engine during the 5.0 years, and it never got the 5.4L during the last 8 years (except in the super rare R models). We eill be lick if we see the 5.4L in the next gen Mustangs, let alone a 6.2L. I guess Frod just loves losing races to GM. Considering the next gen f-bodies will have the 6.0L 400+hp LS2 engine, Ford better wake up and give at least the 5.4L some serious consideration.
     
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  12. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    I think you are selling Ford seriously short here. In the Mach they are able to make their little DOHC 4.6 run neck and neck with LS1 F-bodies. If things hold true the 4.6 SOHC V8 in the 05 will do the same thing on 87 octane gas. And the supercharged DOHC blows the LS1 right out the water and the LS2 even with it's 400 N/A horses will still be behind the 03 Cobra engine. And who knows if they have something else down the pipeline. I honestly think the power outputs will be closer in the upcoming generations of Camaro and Mustang. I don't think Ford will start cramming the bigger engines in the base Mustang but I do think they will use different technologies to make up the difference. And I do think they will up the ante with larger displacements in the special edition Stangs.
     
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  13. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    I kind of agree with Scot_94GT, Ford needs a displacement boost. The 8 year old LS1 engine is still putting out a lot more power than the brand new 3v 4.6L (350HP/375tq vs. 300HP/315tq) even if the new 4.6L is underrated by 20HP/20tq it is still 30HP/40tq behind the LS1 and will be in an equally heavy car. The GM Gen IV V8 architecture for example can range from 4.8-7.0L and still keep the same external size and weight. Ford needs that flexibility in its V8 lineup. Sure Ford can use tech like 3v heads and VVT/VCT to make up for the smaller displacement but GM has 3v and VVT coming out soon too and I'm sure DC will follow with the Hemi. Bottom line is Ford needs more displacement, hopefully the new Stang will get a bad a$$ version of the aluminum 5.4L V8
     
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  14. SadbutTrue

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    in case no one noticed, that 5.7L in the Fbodies got GM nowhere. I mean, its nice... but I'm completely content with what they are doing. Ford is in this to make money, not to cater to small, specific groups. And they (and GM) have proven that 350 horsepower engines at the expense of the rest of the car doesn't make money. I sincerely doubt we'll ever see a 6.2L engine in a common mustang... for many reasons. Even the 5.4L is a stretch in anything except the Cobra.

    The 4.6 is still huge compared to everything the Mustang's current, tangible competition has... the 350z, RX8 and to a lesser extent the WRXs/Evos of the world. And we still don't know if the Fbodies are even going to come back, and what form they would take if they were to come back. Making bigger motors isn't all that hard anyway, if for some reason GM or DC proves that throwing a 6L engine in their cars will make more money, then Ford can step up.
     
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  15. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    Correct, HP isn't the #1 thing that sells cars, that is why the bulk of Mustang, F-bodys, and the 300 will be V6 cars. The Camaro always got bad ass engines because it was cheaper/more profitable to use a Vette hand-me-down than to build a smaller V8 just for the Camaro.

    The HP niche models like the SS, WS6, Mach 1, and Cobra are all about image and bragging rights. When people argue what is better the Camaro or Mustang you never heard them talk about the V6 model, how many V6 Camaro Mustang comparisons did you see in the auto mags? Maybe 1 in the last 10 years vs. dozens for the V8 cars.

    The High end V8 is also all about giving something back to your loyalist. In three years no matter how good the 3v 4.6L GT is you know Mustang fans will be ******ing if that is still the top engine while GM builds 400HP LS2 Camaros and GTOs, and Dodge has 425HP 6.1L Chargers out. It's all about keeping the loyal consumer happy. With the Camaro, the SS was also the most profitable model.

    Then why are they building the 550HP Ford GT? When that project got OKed Ford was losing $9 Billion a year, shouldn't that money have gone into updating the Taurus? or building another high profit SUV? Ford is probably only going to break even on the GT(40)
     
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  16. Stangston

    Stangston Member

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    I don't think Ford's intention was to make money on the GT. I think the purpose was to give an image boost to Ford and get people talking and attached to the brand. I'd have to say they've succeeded. It was a good marketing move...should boost sales across the Ford fleet.
     
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  17. mustang sallad

    mustang sallad New Member

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    right on
    i think a lot of people will be less likely to say "i'd never be caught in a ford" after they see that thing smoking ferraris and lambos.
    The GT is a halo car.
     
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  18. SVTdriver

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    Ford is building it for a Halo car. It is not supposed to be a big profit center.In case you didn't notice Ford every once and a while builds something they won't make money on. It's to improve image and suit a stated purpose (Think Cobra R). Does Ford really need another SUV. I think that is Chevy's domain. I mean after all the got rid of the camaro and introduced what? Oh yeah another truck.

    Sure the SS may have been the most profitable camaro. But in the end was it enough to save the camaro? The highend V8 will be the Cobra. that would be why it's high end. Not common affordable priced. We have heard several rumors of the Cobra getting the 5.4. So wouldn't that be the bigger engine in the niche high hp car you seem to want?

    I would not mind a bigger engine assuming it gets the same fuel economy, better hp and tq. And weighs the same or at least relatively close. But other than that. I may be in the minority. But I don't care what the GTO gets (It's a boring Pontiac). Nor do I have ***** envy from what the new camaro may get if it ever comes back.
     
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  19. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    As for the models that we KNOW are going to happen I don't think they need a displacement boost. The base Mustang and the lowest performance model GT both of which should remain to be available for under 25k. Compare that with the Charger which is likely to start out at around 28k and the new F-body if it comes out with the LS2 will also be likely 3-4k more expensive the GTO already is substantially more expensive. The Magnum R/T and the 300C though fast for what they are are likely to be slower than the GT anyway. I agree that yeah Ford should up the ante on the special editions with larger displacements but for what we know we are getting an underrated 300 horsepower GT will beat the pants off of 90% of the cars on the road and should give us a nice platform to build up on with the aftermarket. Frankly as long as at the end of day I get a car that looks good, has the power and the modability for a reasonable price for both the car and aftermarket supplies that I'm looking for I really could not care less if it's outpowered by another engine.
     
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  20. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    That is correct, the Ford GT was built to be a Halo car, and a damn good one it is. High end Mustangs like the Cobra and Mach 1 do the same thing for the Mustang line.

    Even if the Camaro SS was the most profitable car in the auto industry, GM would have stopped making them because of 2003 crash standard. The current Mustang doesn't pass 2005 crash standard but Ford is on the ball and has a replacement ready, GM doesn't have it's new lower cost RWD platform ready (CTS plataform is too costly for a V6 Camaro). Zeta RWD cars will start to come out in 2006.

    Back to the Mustang.... The new 4.6L will be a great engine.... as long as 300HP is all you want. A 375HP aluminum 3v 5.4L Mustang for $29K-$30K would be great and that is what I would buy if avalible.

    One problem with the Ford V8s that you brought up is that they are too big and heavy, a 5.4L DOHC is as big and heavy as a big block V8. This is one area were pushrod V8s have a hugh advantage. There is a pic floating around the net of a Ford 5.0 and a DOHC 4.6L, the size difference is crazy.
     
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