I am a regular active user over at TheMustangSource (forums.bradbarnett.net), and was given the opportunity to risk-free test a Granatelli Motorsports TB.
The "challenge" was that he would provide free labor and free dyno time/runs, both before and after replacing the TB. If the TB made 5rwhp or more (and equal torque) peak, I would buy the part and be on my way knowing that it did something, if it did NOT perform up to that minimal standard, J.R. Granatelli would reinstall my stock one and i would be on my way knowing it was a useless upgrade (at least in my setup). I also promised a detailed writeup for the member of TMS, and i followed through with it.
my performance mods are:
JLT intake
full dyno tune (before bolting on the TB, i have not tuned it after as of yet)
Steeda UD pullies
TB (now)
...that is all (gears and suspension mods i will not mention as they are extensive but do not affect the engines ability to make power in this instance)
This is the back-story thread where the challenge was originally offered: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=41298
This is what i posted over at http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=43704 :
Ok, first off I apologize to JR for being 30min late, i did not expect the one hour drive to take almost two...
second, here are a few pictures of me on the dyno, and of the throttle bodies (stock vs GMS) side by side, and of the GMS TB installed.
Thank you to to JR, Morgan, and GMS for lending their time pro bono for new mustang enthusiasts such as myself! They were very professional and I was thoroughly impressed with their shop and AWD Mustang Dyno
Me on dyno:
TBs side by side comparison:
this TB does not open past parallel, not that that would restrict very much air anyway:
Installed:
Here are 2 of the 4 pulls done BEFORE the TB (note that they are identical down to just tenths of a hp/ft-lb, and therefore show very well that this is the correct set of numbers for my car beforehand...not just a freak pull):
HERE ARE THE RESULTS YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR (before and after comparison, done ~45 minutes apart and in the same conditions...and engine was warm for both). Note how consistant the increase in torque is through all rpm, and the gradual, but steady increase in hp, which may be why many claim to "feel" a lighter pedal:
Here is a better view of it (keep in mind that this was the FIRST run after simply bolting on the TB, as rwtq actually increased more in the subsequent run):
A/F ratio AFTER is essentially 12.5:1 down low and leans out through the rpm range as more air is allowed into the engine, peaking at 13.1:1 (A/F ratio numbers on on the right hand side of the graph):
Now for those who don't use a Mustang Dynometer to measure a loaded application, we did an "unloaded" run. These numbers should be nearly identical to ones that would be achieved on a DynoJet Dynometer (it uses the results achieved by the SECOND pass with the TB on, which means that the results are 10.5rwhp increase over how it used to be, and 13.7rwtq over how it used to be):
Results from driving:
Throttle response is EXTREMELY light now, and the added torque through the whole rpm range can really be felt, i was going 140 before i had any idea what i was doing when i got back on the 101S. the throttle engages more with less pedal work, so it takes a few minutes to get the hang of, but isn't bad or anything....(negatives, see below...)
Now time for the DOWNSIDES:
When you let off the throttle, the car keeps going at the same rpm, much the same way it would if you put the clutch in, put it in neutral, or have an automatic (the "coasting" effect i dub it). It is quite annoying after a while cuz u have to use the breaks a lot more than normal. Fortunately, all this can be solved with a reflash to make the tb close all the way when you let off the gas.
Also, there is a distinct whistle that comes from out of the intake now and takes some getting used to, though it is really not a downside unless you are biggotted against things that whistle, haha.
other than that i have no no negative effects...no CEL or safe mode, no gettting stuck at WOT, and nothing but instant feedback when hitting the gas.
What's the Final Result?
1)GMS dealt with the "challenge" very professionally, and I highly recommend them because of this positive experience
2)when the dust settled, the most rwhp increase achieved by a simple bolt-on was 10.8rwhp, the least measured was 10.5rwhp.
3) the most rwtq increase measured was 13.7rwtq, the least was 12.5rwtq
4)the GMS throttle body worked very well with my JLT intake and SCT2 tune, and more gains might be possible with another full tune
5)I highly recommend you go to your local shop that deals with your tuning program and get some sort of reflash to make it "throttle down" faster after letting off the gas
6)DynoJet numbers are misleading, but make you feel better about yourself when bragging
7)there is a huge party tonight and after a long day of hanging out at GMS, Pacific Coast Motorsports, G.A.S (opens Feb15), and another shop or two, I am ready to let loose in a way that does not involve driving!
feel free to PM me any questions you have about my experience with JR, GMS, or driving with the TB, or feel free to post them in here.
-Geoff Larson
The "challenge" was that he would provide free labor and free dyno time/runs, both before and after replacing the TB. If the TB made 5rwhp or more (and equal torque) peak, I would buy the part and be on my way knowing that it did something, if it did NOT perform up to that minimal standard, J.R. Granatelli would reinstall my stock one and i would be on my way knowing it was a useless upgrade (at least in my setup). I also promised a detailed writeup for the member of TMS, and i followed through with it.
my performance mods are:
JLT intake
full dyno tune (before bolting on the TB, i have not tuned it after as of yet)
Steeda UD pullies
TB (now)
...that is all (gears and suspension mods i will not mention as they are extensive but do not affect the engines ability to make power in this instance)
This is the back-story thread where the challenge was originally offered: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=41298
This is what i posted over at http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=43704 :
Ok, first off I apologize to JR for being 30min late, i did not expect the one hour drive to take almost two...
second, here are a few pictures of me on the dyno, and of the throttle bodies (stock vs GMS) side by side, and of the GMS TB installed.
Thank you to to JR, Morgan, and GMS for lending their time pro bono for new mustang enthusiasts such as myself! They were very professional and I was thoroughly impressed with their shop and AWD Mustang Dyno
Me on dyno:
TBs side by side comparison:
this TB does not open past parallel, not that that would restrict very much air anyway:
Installed:
Here are 2 of the 4 pulls done BEFORE the TB (note that they are identical down to just tenths of a hp/ft-lb, and therefore show very well that this is the correct set of numbers for my car beforehand...not just a freak pull):
HERE ARE THE RESULTS YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR (before and after comparison, done ~45 minutes apart and in the same conditions...and engine was warm for both). Note how consistant the increase in torque is through all rpm, and the gradual, but steady increase in hp, which may be why many claim to "feel" a lighter pedal:
Here is a better view of it (keep in mind that this was the FIRST run after simply bolting on the TB, as rwtq actually increased more in the subsequent run):
A/F ratio AFTER is essentially 12.5:1 down low and leans out through the rpm range as more air is allowed into the engine, peaking at 13.1:1 (A/F ratio numbers on on the right hand side of the graph):
Now for those who don't use a Mustang Dynometer to measure a loaded application, we did an "unloaded" run. These numbers should be nearly identical to ones that would be achieved on a DynoJet Dynometer (it uses the results achieved by the SECOND pass with the TB on, which means that the results are 10.5rwhp increase over how it used to be, and 13.7rwtq over how it used to be):
Results from driving:
Throttle response is EXTREMELY light now, and the added torque through the whole rpm range can really be felt, i was going 140 before i had any idea what i was doing when i got back on the 101S. the throttle engages more with less pedal work, so it takes a few minutes to get the hang of, but isn't bad or anything....(negatives, see below...)
Now time for the DOWNSIDES:
When you let off the throttle, the car keeps going at the same rpm, much the same way it would if you put the clutch in, put it in neutral, or have an automatic (the "coasting" effect i dub it). It is quite annoying after a while cuz u have to use the breaks a lot more than normal. Fortunately, all this can be solved with a reflash to make the tb close all the way when you let off the gas.
Also, there is a distinct whistle that comes from out of the intake now and takes some getting used to, though it is really not a downside unless you are biggotted against things that whistle, haha.
other than that i have no no negative effects...no CEL or safe mode, no gettting stuck at WOT, and nothing but instant feedback when hitting the gas.
What's the Final Result?
1)GMS dealt with the "challenge" very professionally, and I highly recommend them because of this positive experience
2)when the dust settled, the most rwhp increase achieved by a simple bolt-on was 10.8rwhp, the least measured was 10.5rwhp.
3) the most rwtq increase measured was 13.7rwtq, the least was 12.5rwtq
4)the GMS throttle body worked very well with my JLT intake and SCT2 tune, and more gains might be possible with another full tune
5)I highly recommend you go to your local shop that deals with your tuning program and get some sort of reflash to make it "throttle down" faster after letting off the gas
6)DynoJet numbers are misleading, but make you feel better about yourself when bragging
7)there is a huge party tonight and after a long day of hanging out at GMS, Pacific Coast Motorsports, G.A.S (opens Feb15), and another shop or two, I am ready to let loose in a way that does not involve driving!
feel free to PM me any questions you have about my experience with JR, GMS, or driving with the TB, or feel free to post them in here.
-Geoff Larson
