Boss T/A front brake upgrade (Lincoln/Tbird calipers) thread

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by Rusty67, Dec 12, 2007.


  1. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Greenville, SC

    In it's most basic form an ABS counts magnetic pulses and when they drop below a certain % of road speed the ABS opens a pressure relief valve. The better systems are 4 channel and can open/close about 10 times a second or faster.
    #61
  2. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2002
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    lubbock, texas

    here's a good read on ABS stuff. for the most part the "brain" uses the sensors to determine when to pulse the brake pressure but there are ofther factors as well. fortunately though, the sn-95 cars are pretty similar in front to rear weight bias as well as the general specs of the brake system so as long as you use something from an sn-95 stang you'll probably be fine, apparently the cobra unit is the one to have as it has yaw control as well. but i'm sure a brain from even a jeep cherokee would work ok as well since it is also very similar to an early mustang.
    #62
  3. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2002
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    lubbock, texas


    hmmm, this could be very interesting then. the h3 caliper is for a 1.1" rotor and a 2003 crown vic rotor is 1.1" by chance and 12" diameter. the h3 caliper also "appears" to have a similar mounting ear to a csn-95 cobra caliper as well. BTW, i forgot the link to the h3 caliper i found on ebay

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-H...eZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

    napa page for the crown vic 12" rotor, they also have a drilled and slotted version as well

    http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPag...escription=Brake Rotor Only - Front - Premium

    if we could use the 4 piston aluminum h3 calipers and 12" crown vic rotors that might work out to a very cool brake system. i'm definitely going to have to play with this some this spring or summer. about the only real problem is that crown vic rotor isn't as tall as a stock early mustang rotor or the t/a boss version but i think it would be doable with a 1/2" spacer. my biggest concern is whether or not it will fit behind my 15" wheels but i don't mind grinding on the calipers some if they'll clear with that modification. i might even play around with the ABS some myself as well....later.
    #63
  4. tweet66

    tweet66 Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Pennsauken, NJ
    other calipers

    bnickle, the H3 caliper looks like a viable unit. I've also been looking at '01 and later Toyota Tundra calipers. They're 4 pots but Ive been unable to find info on the rotor width. Obviously, you'd have to contend with the metric fittings and such.
    #64
  5. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    SB, CA
    Metric fitings are no big deal. All it means is that the end of the lines need to be bubble flaired or you need to use an adaptor.

    I'd be more concerned about the diameter of the holes used to mount the caliper. If they are smaller they could be drilled out, if they are larger a shim could be pressed in place.
    #65
  6. tweet66

    tweet66 Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Pennsauken, NJ
    The holes are threaded for metric bolts so the bolts would go through a bracket, with shims as necessary, and bolt into the caliper itself. I have asimilar setup on my 86 4 Runner now. That's what got me looking in the first place.
    #66
  7. Helmantel

    Helmantel New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, something like the whole setup from an SN95 Mustang probably works, since the car is similar, weight wise. An ABS unit probably works in principle with any set of brakes on any car, but you may get some weird behaviour if it's not a matched system (just like with most electronically controlled systems).
    #67
  8. Arty

    Arty New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've done the Lincold/Tbird caliper conversion on my track car from junkyard parts. I can answer most questions about the conversion.

    I will say the Lincoln/Tbird caliper is a heavy turd and holds a LOT of heat. No way I would use these on a track car without ducting.

    Many better alternatives out there, if vintage rules would allow, I would use a lighter aluminum aftermarket caliper.

    FWIW, I was told by a caliper rebuilder that early Olds Toronado and Caddy Eldorado use an almost identical caliper to the Lincoln/Tbird piece. The difference is the angle of the brake hose.
    #68
  9. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    SB, CA
    Arty, we would love to hear what parts you used to get the caliper mounted to the spindle and what rotors you used as well.
    #69
  10. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2002
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    lubbock, texas

    you beat me to it there. i was going to say that pretty much all 80's and 90's 4x4 toyotas had the 4 piston caliper as well, this is a vert popular swap on early z-cars and it's supposed to be almost a direct bolt in on the z-cars from what i undrstand. it would probably work well on an early mustang as well. not sure how much different the 01 tundra calipers are from the older versions though.
    #70
  11. tweet66

    tweet66 Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Pennsauken, NJ
    I mentioned the Tundra because the cailper specs are closer to what was on a full size Ford (Am I allowed to use that name?) Thunderbird or LTD. Actually the calipers on my 4 Runner are pretty close in size to the factory 65/67 Mustang as well. Just thought it'd be an option that has readily available replacement parts cheaper then SSBC or finding the original Ford pieces.:nice:
    #71
  12. Arty

    Arty New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I bought the Cobra Automotive bracket and use the 66 Tbird rotor (Raybestos 6008) with an early Mustang disc hub.
    OE, the caliper has threaded mounting holes. The holes must be drilled out to clear a 9/16" bolt. Best done on a mill, that material is tough!
    A stiffening rib is cast into the outside of the caliper that must be milled (or ground) down for wheel clearance.]

    I tried to get caliper brackets manufactured to accommodate both Wilwood and vintage Lincoln/Tbird calipers. No one was willing to take on the liability without some serious compen$ation. Made laying out the $$$ for C.A. brackets a no brainer.

    Again, there are better alternatives than the Tbird/Lincoln brake swap for cars not restricted to vintage racing rules.
    [​IMG]
    #72
  13. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2002
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    lubbock, texas
    Arty, there certainly are better choices and lighter ones but the problem is that for those of use who wish to retain our 15" wheels and have a bigger than 11" rotor there just isn't anything in the way of options besides this. yes, it's heavy but if you take into consideration the weight of the bigger brakes and offset that against the weight of aluminum wheels vs the stock steel wheels the difference in unsprung weight is about the same, so i'm not all that concerned, though it would be nice to have an aluminum caliper, i can live with it.
    #73
  14. Arty

    Arty New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Makes no difference to me what you do (or dream of doing). :nice:
    #74
  15. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2002
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    lubbock, texas


    well, do you happen to know of any other 12" brake systems that will work with 15" wheels? thats' the only reason i want to do this swap, better than stock brakes that will fit under a 15" wheel. i don't want to go to 13" brakes because obviously they won't fit under a 15" wheel and i don't want to go to 17" whees because i don't really like the look or the lack of sidewall either. my mustang currently has 17" wheels but i got those to enhance the value of the car come time to sell it, and since they were pretty much an even swap for my old 69 shelby wheels i didn't hesitate in trading them, i also can't tell much of handling difference from my old 235/60 and 275/50 15" tires either, a little but not a lot for sure and i don't feel every little expansion joint with the 15's like i do with the 17's. i guess i'm just old school when it comes to wheels and tires. :nice:
    #75
  16. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    SB, CA
    I wana run these calipers because it will be different/stock parts/better then what I got and affordable.

    Who knows, I might end up puting the old 4 piston KH calipers on the rear with a drum parking brake lol.
    #76
  17. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    SB, CA
    Wow, took them quite a while to get back to me on that email I sent them but here it is:

    As you are aware, in the past we produced a big brake kit which used the 65-66 T-Bird calipers and 1970 LTD rotors. We used that rotor and caliper adapter because it allowed a 15" Torque Thrust wheel to be mounted over the caliper without having to use spacers to space the wheel away from the caliper. For handling, it is important that the center of the wheel be as close to centerline of the ball joints. Spacers move the wheel away from the center line of the ball joints which causes additional tire scrubbing which reduces handling performance.

    The caliper adapters supplied in the kit were CNC'd from solid billet steel. Radius corners were designed into the machining to prevent stress risers at internal corners. Because they were CNC'd in one operation, the calipers ran true to the center line of the rotor. Over the years we have sold out of these adapters. Although we have most of the other parts of the kit, the adapters were the part that we received the most calls for.

    Having the original CNC program we have decided to run more sets of the caliper adapters if we receive interest in them. Cost will be $300.00 U.S. per set. We will need to run 10 sets to make it cost effective.

    If you are interested, please let me know.

    Ron Randolph
    Speed Parts International
    (925) 945-8178
    www.speedpartsinternational.com
    #77
  18. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2002
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    lubbock, texas
    hmmm, not very cheap are they? i'm really starting to think there has to be a cheaper way to do this with newer and lighter parts. so far i'm liking the h3 calipers and 12" crown vic rotors

    i'm also considering going with a set of Jeep ZJ (grand cherokee) rear brakes now as well
    #78
  19. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    SB, CA
    No simple bracket like this should cost 300 dollars. It is price gouging plane and simple. If I get a bracket made I'll have it setup on a CNC machine and I'll post the CNC files on line for everyone.
    #79
  20. 96 DOHC Cobra

    96 DOHC Cobra Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cerritos, CA
    I have a pair of the brackets. I bought them from a guy I knew through the local swapmeets. I paid $350 for them about five years ago. They're CNCed from billet steel. His explanation for the high cost was: 1. The steel is expensive, 2. The CNC process took like eight hours. Does it really take that long?
    #80

Share This Page