Boss T/A front brake upgrade (Lincoln/Tbird calipers) thread

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by Rusty67, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. bnickel

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    the F-250 master cylinder starts in like 68 and goes all the way up to the late 70's, not sure on the vette master, and it may actually be an aftermarket pieces. Vette Brakes and Products is one likely source for the vette piece, there are also many aftermarket compaines making the vette style master cylinder in various universal forms too. a word of caution though, both of these masters are rather large so if you have power brakes you may need either a slimmer power brake booster or modify the shock tower for clearance. i don't know if either one will work with the stock booster and on a 65-66, in fact you may not be able to use a booster at all on a 65-66, not 100% sure on that though.
     
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  2. bnickel

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    i have a slightly different version of the boss 302 engine manual that includes al of the small block line-up including the289, 289 hi-po, 302, boss 302, 351c and 351w. it's actually an OHO engine manual but the format is the same as the boss 302 manual and even still has the boss 302 manual front cover, it's apparently a rather rare book and i have not seen it in reproduction form and before anyone asks NO, it's not for sale!!!!!!:D
     
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  3. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    You can also grind a little off the front part of the MC to get a tad bit of clearance.
     
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  4. dharrelson

    dharrelson Member

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    Thanks.
     
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  5. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    But is it available for photocopy ?
     
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  6. 69gmachine

    69gmachine Member

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    Would you consider mailing the original to someone who's interested, and then they could mail it to the next person, and eventually it will get back to you. Unless of course it's like that damn butterfly that was never really yours to begin with.
     
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  7. bnickel

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    i could try to scan and upload or email it, if my scanner will cooperate. not sure when i'll be able to do it though. i can try it this weekend maybe, but i'm not really willing to let it out of my sight, sorry......kind of sentimental...sort of. anyway i've had it since i was in high school
     
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  8. rbohm

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    bnickle, regarding rear disc brakes, what if you started with the crown vic rear discs, and modified the caliper bracket to work with the four piston caliper of your choice?
     
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  9. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking of doing this on mine. I want to run the 4 pistons in the rear just like the Boss T/A had. I've got a set of Vic brakes fully rebuilt with fresh pads and everything just waiting to go on.

    Once I get the front upgraded, I could build a stand for one of the Vic blacking plates and cut the caliper mount off of it so I can prototype it without having to mess around on the car itself.
     
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  10. bnickel

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    i've though about that actually but the problem is that the crown vic has such a narrow rotor even using stock 67 mustang pads, also a narrow rotor, there's still about .5" difference between the 2 which could get real ugly. even i spent the bucks for those DBA vented rotors we'd discussed in one of the crown vic brake threads there's still be almost 1/2" less than with the stock solid rotor but still quite a bit.

    at this point i'm thinking about just saving a little money when the time comes and use the MP Brakes big drum kit out back, hell that kit is cheaper than just the SSBC calipers themselves and it'll work almost as good if not better than the stock crown vic disc brakes
     
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  11. 69gmachine

    69gmachine Member

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    I was just messin' with ya! I didn't really expect you to give up a prize possession... but scanning would be great!
     
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  12. bnickel

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    i don't mind scanning it, but like i said i don't know if my printer will let me. last time i tried to scan something it wouldn't let but that was with my old computer and it had some kind of software conflict, haven't tried with the new computer yet.
     
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  13. mikethebike

    mikethebike Member

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    I have a question about this idea to put OLD brake stuff of your car. I did the full-on 4-wheel disc Stage-III conversion back in 1974 when ALL the stuff was easy to get and while it was a very good 1974 brake system, when compared to what is out there today it just does not compete.
    Why not just buy a good after-market aluminum caliper, 4-piston, drilled/slotted rotor kit? My youngest son an I put a set of 14" BAER front brakes on his car and you just couldn't believe the increase in braking feedback and modulation. Cost about $1100.00. If you use a smaller diameter rotor set-up the cost drops dramatically.
    I also did the Lincolon Versailles rear disc swap in my 65 coupe back in 1985. FAR too much unsprung weight. Plus, it didn't help the stopping distance one bit. I read back when Shelby was building the 1965 GT-350 that they tried both rear disc and irs and neither helped the car go faster or stop shorter. Most likely due to the limited room for tires on the irs and the forward weight bias on the braking. What they did use was the big car drum out back.
    Maybe it's my age but I just don't see the advantage in hunting down parts..parts that may not be easily attainable should they fail...spending the same or more and then having an inferior system that adds 15 pounds or more of unsprung weight.
    K.I.S.S.
     
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  14. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    Mike, you are missing a lot of the points of this project. For me, its different and nostalgic. I also HATE HATE HATE floating calipers. How do you fit a 15" or 16" rim over these new larger brakes ? You can't. Also, there are light weight, aluminum versions of these calipers available for relatively cheap. The parts we would be using would be easy to service and replace. If you read the hole thread, you would realize what we were going for.

    As to your coments about the IRS in the classic Mustang, Ford tested it on a smooth race track and found it to be no faster then the stock solid axle. This doesn't mean it wasn't more comfortable of a ride on a bumpy street and didn't handle better on a banked track around curves.

    Rear disk brakes have advantages and disavantages when compaired to drums but I am rather sure that a 4 piston caliper in the rear with an 11" vented rotor is going to stop perty damn good on the track where as drums are going to heat up and start to faid.
     
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  15. mikethebike

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    I agree with you 100% on the floating caliper.....we used a 4-piston unit. And you don't fit 15 or 16 wheels on 14 rotors.....you do fit 18" wheels. Who makes the aluminum calipers...the ones we took off the Lincoln were iron.

    The irs test was done on a road race track...can't remember which one....no argument on the comfort point. But if you have the bias set correctly the rear brakes on a Mustang that has almost 60% of its weight on the front are not going to move very often. The biggest advantage I see to any fixed caliper disc is the ease of service. I could change the front pads on my 65 in the time I could remove ONE side on the floating BOSS-302. Plus you get more even pressure distribution and pad wear on the 4 piston. If I had the money I'd go with a 6-piston differential bore caliper.

    Good luck...can you post some pictures?
     
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  16. stonecoldtx

    stonecoldtx Member

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    With all this talk regarding brake upgrades and such, I thought I would post this link that contains a WEALTH of information regarding brake technology, including upgrading to larger components:

    StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

    I learned some of this stuff waaaay back when in classes I took, but some of these articles contain actual formulas that you can use to calculate what you need, as well as information regarding the types of components to use.

    These articles are WELL worth your time in reading . . .

    :)
     
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  17. bnickel

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    mike, what we're talking about currently is upgrading the old 12" LTD rotor and iron 4 piston calipers to a more up to date system. ABS Power brake is now making aluminum versions of the old iron 4 piston calipers and there are several companies on ebay selling cross-drilled, slotted (or any combo of the 3) and zinc washed rotors and you can still buy the caliper brackets as well so the parts are easy enough to find. SSBC also has aluminum version of the stock 65-67 mustang 4 piston calipers too, so upgrading the rear discs to an aluminum 4 piston caliper out back is easy enough as well, or just for upgrading the stock 65-67 mustang disc brakes.

    my reasons for wanting to go this route are that i want to keep a more stock look to my car and only run 15" wheels, besides which i have a very nice set of 15" Riken mesh wheels that was the very first set of aluminum wheels i ever bought and i don't plan on ever getting rid of them because i love the look of those wheels and they aren't made in modern 17" + plus sizes. plus i want to run the largest/best brakes i can get inside those 15" wheels and this is the route i've deemed as the best for my car and my requirements.

    if you look hard enough you can also still find good 15" performance tires too and even though they are harder to find they are still less expensive than most 17" or larger tires. you also talked about unsprung weight and a set of 17" wheels ad tires aren't exactly light you know, any gain you might get from going with larger brakes that weight less than even the iron calipers is going to be more than offset with those bigger/heavier wheels and tires.
     
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  18. 96 DOHC Cobra

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    Does anyone know if the calipers sold by ABS Power Brake are exact copies of the T-Bird iron calipers? Will they mount to the same spindle or caliper bracket as the T-Bird caliper? I sent them an E-mail a couple of days ago but haven't heard back.
     
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  19. bnickel

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    somwhere in the catalog it does say that these are direct replacements.
     
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  20. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    bnickel, I was looking up rotors to use and I checked the LTD rotor. It is 11.72" in diameter. Did we ever find another rotor that was a full 12" in diameter ?
     
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