I have a quick question. Im not sure if the diagram looks this way but if power goes from the brake switch to the steering column and back out then Im assuming that the wire goes through that same connector on the column. If so would I be wise to check the wire that goes from the switch to the column or the fact that the turn signals work tells us that this connection is good? I feel we are close to the end of this mess, thanks for the help.
Brake lights
- Thread starter xero0620
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Never mind the previous post. I see the 12v coming in on your switch diagram.
My main problem now is that there was a stereo installed and an alarm installed by the PO and there are so many wires under the dash. Ill try and stick with the oldest looking ones and go from there. I should be able to track down this two wire plug though.
My main problem now is that there was a stereo installed and an alarm installed by the PO and there are so many wires under the dash. Ill try and stick with the oldest looking ones and go from there. I should be able to track down this two wire plug though.
BarnStang
Founding Member
[
Here you are telling us that you have 12v coming out of the turn sig switch on the two wires for the left & right brake light.
QUOTE=xero0620;7581477]I have a quick question. Im not sure if the diagram looks this way but if power goes from the brake switch to the steering column and back out then Im assuming that the wire goes through that same connector on the column. If so would I be wise to check the wire that goes from the switch to the column or the fact that the turn signals work tells us that this connection is good? I feel we are close to the end of this mess, thanks for the help.[/QUOTE]
Here we seem to be regressing back to whether you have 12v going from the switch to the turn sig switch? You can't let what you see with your eyes (a giant ball of wire) affect what you are troubleshooting. No other wires are of concern other than the one wire leaving the brake light switch, going through the curved connecter, up the steering column, into the turn signal switch, split into left and right wires, come back down the steering column, through the curved connecter, accross the under dash harness to the two pin plastic connector under the heater controls. THats it. If you pull the connecter off the brake light switch, put a jumper accross it, and trace the 12v power with your test light, you can nail it down in less than an hour. If you have a good test light indication at the two pin connecter, the next stop is the trunk. THose two wires go to the bulb sockets.
Here you are telling us that you have 12v coming out of the turn sig switch on the two wires for the left & right brake light.
QUOTE=xero0620;7581477]I have a quick question. Im not sure if the diagram looks this way but if power goes from the brake switch to the steering column and back out then Im assuming that the wire goes through that same connector on the column. If so would I be wise to check the wire that goes from the switch to the column or the fact that the turn signals work tells us that this connection is good? I feel we are close to the end of this mess, thanks for the help.[/QUOTE]
Here we seem to be regressing back to whether you have 12v going from the switch to the turn sig switch? You can't let what you see with your eyes (a giant ball of wire) affect what you are troubleshooting. No other wires are of concern other than the one wire leaving the brake light switch, going through the curved connecter, up the steering column, into the turn signal switch, split into left and right wires, come back down the steering column, through the curved connecter, accross the under dash harness to the two pin plastic connector under the heater controls. THats it. If you pull the connecter off the brake light switch, put a jumper accross it, and trace the 12v power with your test light, you can nail it down in less than an hour. If you have a good test light indication at the two pin connecter, the next stop is the trunk. THose two wires go to the bulb sockets.
I know for a fact now that power is going through the connector. I still cant find the final connector before the tail lights. Im pretty sure that its not the wires, the odds of two wires being bad is slim.
I still dont get how if there is power up to that point why my brake lights didnt work and the turn signal lights did. If they run off the same wire then that makes no since how power would get to the element in the bulb they both use only for the turn signals.
Suppose I cant find the final connector. Could I run two wires from the wires at the steering column plug to the tail lights? Would this solve the brake light and turn signal problem?
I still dont get how if there is power up to that point why my brake lights didnt work and the turn signal lights did. If they run off the same wire then that makes no since how power would get to the element in the bulb they both use only for the turn signals.
Suppose I cant find the final connector. Could I run two wires from the wires at the steering column plug to the tail lights? Would this solve the brake light and turn signal problem?
BarnStang
Founding Member
OK, zookeeper had you on the right track. When I entered this thread I was under the impression the brake lights did not work, that you had brake lights soley by the added wire you ran. So I have been trying to resolve the failed brake light circuit.
Yes, if the turn signals did indeed work, then the end game was the brake light switch. THere was no need to go farther.
Solving the brake lights is WAY easier than trying to solve the turn signals, and solving the brake lights MIGHT solve the turnsignals along with it...
If you have recently done work to the turn signal (didn't catch that first time through) then this is almost entirely the source of the intermittant problems. THe issue of replacing the cam in the turn sig sw has been debated here several times. Understandably, if you are on a budget, you need to fix stuff as inexpensivly as possible. Been there. And people "have" replaced the cam and had no problems, but others have had problems. Sometimes the switch is too far gone. If you can afford a new turn sig switch, you should just replace it, if it was broken in any way. Just my opinion.
So, I am sorry I missed the part about the turn sig sw. THe troubleshooting process remains the same. Let me know what you would like to do next.
So im not really sure what I should do next. Are you saying the problem is the plastic stuff in the steering column and I should replace the whole thing? I think you can buy the entire setup with the cam for around 100$. If I do replace it then how do i put all the pins in the old connector? I dont think it comes with a new connector just the wires with pins.
I could try splicing two wires in at the connector and running them to the tail lights. It couldnt hurt anything since the next step after that is replacement anyway.
I could try splicing two wires in at the connector and running them to the tail lights. It couldnt hurt anything since the next step after that is replacement anyway.
BarnStang
Founding Member
I'm not sure what to tell you beyond what I have posted. Splicing wires in is not the answer, troubleshooting the problem is. If it were me, I would pull all the added/spliced wiring out and start over. Solve the brake lights-it's one wire in, two wires out and 12 volts. Replacing the turn signal switch is your call. You should try and find someone who can look over this locally before you replace it. I would replace it, but that's me.
And yes, the new switch does not come with a connecter, you need to extract the pins and repopulate your connecter shell. Not impossible, but moderatly difficult to explain in written text. THere is little to margin for error in putting the pins back in the shell. THe safest way is one wire at a time-old one out, new one in-no mistakes. If the shell won't fit through the steering column, well, then you need to be even more careful. You would need to draw a good diagram and extract the pins and pull the switch out of the steering column. One wire in the wrong position could cause a short and do some real damage. Not trying to be dramatic or alarmist, it's simply a real concern in replacing a turn sig switch if you have never done one, seen one done, or have some help from someone who has to back you up while you swap the connecter shells.
THis is not an impossible problem. It's a pretty common problem with these old cars. I really think you need to find some help locally at this point. I will help as best I can, but not being able to see it makes resolving this difficult at this point.
And yes, the new switch does not come with a connecter, you need to extract the pins and repopulate your connecter shell. Not impossible, but moderatly difficult to explain in written text. THere is little to margin for error in putting the pins back in the shell. THe safest way is one wire at a time-old one out, new one in-no mistakes. If the shell won't fit through the steering column, well, then you need to be even more careful. You would need to draw a good diagram and extract the pins and pull the switch out of the steering column. One wire in the wrong position could cause a short and do some real damage. Not trying to be dramatic or alarmist, it's simply a real concern in replacing a turn sig switch if you have never done one, seen one done, or have some help from someone who has to back you up while you swap the connecter shells.
THis is not an impossible problem. It's a pretty common problem with these old cars. I really think you need to find some help locally at this point. I will help as best I can, but not being able to see it makes resolving this difficult at this point.
There are a few shops around here, probably cost me a lot but that is an option.
So is it possible that replacing the switch cam caused the brake lights not to work? You made it sound as if it is common to have problems when doing this. Do people have better luck replacing the whole switch.
I know its not the brake light switch because there is power leaving the switch, there was also power leaving the connector for the steering column. When I splice in at the brake light switch I get brake lights and turn signals are wired together becoming hazard lights. When I splice in at the connector I get nothing at all. That must mean that the cam I replaced messed something up correct?
So is it possible that replacing the switch cam caused the brake lights not to work? You made it sound as if it is common to have problems when doing this. Do people have better luck replacing the whole switch.
I know its not the brake light switch because there is power leaving the switch, there was also power leaving the connector for the steering column. When I splice in at the brake light switch I get brake lights and turn signals are wired together becoming hazard lights. When I splice in at the connector I get nothing at all. That must mean that the cam I replaced messed something up correct?
BarnStang
Founding Member
This would indicate a problem in the turn sig sw, but you previously wrote that you had a good 12v indication coming out of the turn sig sw on the two wires going to the trunk. Orange w/blu & Green w/org. So either you don't really have a good test light indication on those two wires, or the turn sig sw is intermittant and not making a solid connection-giving you erratic readings.
I figured out what I did wrong. Once I ran the direct wire from the brake switch to the brake lights it completed the circuit back to the plastic connector on the column. This was giving me a false good at the plastic connector so it is in the signal switch. Sorry for telling you one thing and it was something else.
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