CAI question

Discussion in '2.3L (N/A & Turbo) Tech' started by Lex, May 10, 2004.


  1. nomuffler

    nomuffler New Member

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    I don't think it is, There's such a huge empty space right underneath the filter. I can't imagine the air being any colder in the fender then right where Kayotyc's is.
  2. furvel

    furvel New Member

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    I believe the idea is that air drawn from outside of the engine compartment is cooler (and therefore more dense) than air drawn from inside a hot engine compartment. Ever work on a hot engine?? The air is always cooler outside of the engine compartment. Ka0tyk's setup is what K&N calls a ram-air intake, not a true CAI. But it's all good. There is no right or wrong. That's the great thing about Stangnet, the exchange of ideas :nice:
  3. JamesBaumann

    JamesBaumann Member

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    No offense to anybody, but I personally didn't really think that the inner fender well CAI was really that great an idea. I mean, having the piping run inside your fender, something tells me that you just would not such in nearly as much air. What I have planned is to just run a 3" PVC pipe from the opening of the airbox where the air silencer was down underneath the bottom grill of the front of the car. I am going to need some elbows and flanges to manoveur the pipe under there. Then from what I hear, there is a bunch of stuff inside the big black "FORD" tubing running from the air box to the intake. I am gonna open that up, pull all that air restricting stuff out, (if it is not essential, which I cant imagine it will be) to increase air flow from the air box to the intake. By the way, I am going to throw a K&N in the airbox to replace the stock FRAM one that is in there now. This way, once the car gets going, it should be sucking in all kinds of cold air through the PVC pipe set up underneath the front grill. The only flaw I see to this plan is that when it is wet I may suck in some water. I need to find a way to stop water from getting up the piping. This seems like a pretty good idea to me, although it may need some more thought and modificatins to it to make it work properly and or better. Anybody have any comments?
  4. furvel

    furvel New Member

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    No offense taken here. I didn't choose the inner fender well CAI myself either. I'm pretty much on the same path as you. I installed a K&N, removed the section between the airbox and intake http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22879 , and have been contemplating changes forward of the stock airbox as well. I like the routing of the stock induction system, I just don't like the restrictive nature of the piping. Water may be a concern in your plans, I'm sure that's why the stock intake mouth is mounted higher, facing forward and not down. You could fabricate deflection plates to prevent water ingestion but they may also re-route the flow of air. K&N is an oiled filter, maybe check their site for water ingestion info. Hmm, anyone got a windtunnel for testing??? :shrug:
  5. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    Furvel I was thinking the same as you for the deflection method. It will depend on your skill here as to how you can go the front air dam and trap cold air and route that up into the filter. I am still working on a plan to gather the air to come up into the Intercooler for when I install it. And in that I plan to use the same system for the cold air. I have thought a lot about this and to go to the fenderwell to me is restrictive air flow, but I agree the air is cooler than the engine compartment. The front air dam method may cause a straw effect for the weather (rain , snow, slush).
    You can alway change the hood and go top a scoop and run the filter right there. I am open to many ideas and pictures.
  6. JamesBaumann

    JamesBaumann Member

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    Is it possible to flood your motor with too much air? For example, if you ran a cold air setup underneath your bumper, and also ran some piping from your intake to an opening in a hood scoop, would your motor be sucking in way too much air for it's own good? If not, and simply the more air the better, it could be something to think about.
  7. nomuffler

    nomuffler New Member

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    I'm not the best at explaing this, it took me quite a while to understand myself. When the piston is on the "intake" stroke the area of low pressure inside the cylinder is filled by the higher pressure outside the engine. So the volume of air in the cylinder will only reach the level of atmospheric pressure (14 some odd PSI). That's why Turbos add power, they pump air into the engine at greater pressures (so more air) so that you can add more fuel. Without the turbo (or supercharger, or whatever type pump) the only way to bring in more air (so you can burn more fuel) is to revv higher so that your acutaly moving more air in the same amount of time, or to increase the displacement of the engine so that it takes more air. So basicly no, the engine will not injest to much air without it being forced in. Also, as long as you can match it with fuel you can never get to much air in the engine :)
  8. JamesBaumann

    JamesBaumann Member

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    Thanks for the explanation nomuffler. That was really excellent info, and explained very well also. I had to read it slow, and several times, but I definitely understand what you mean. So, is essence, what your saying is that as long as I have enough fuel, you can not flood your engine with too much air. Therefore, running and under-the-bumper air induction setup and having a hood scoop air induction system at the same time could be beneficial. Hmmmmm, this is something to think about alright. Now, you say that you are going to need more fuel, does this mean that I am going to need a new fuel pump and/or injectors to match all the air that my engine is taking in? This could be a fun project.
  9. nomuffler

    nomuffler New Member

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    I don't think you could add enough air to require more fuel without a pump.
  10. Lex

    Lex Founding Member

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    What you guys are talking about now is called RAM AIR INTAKE, in which you setup a hood scoop (or other external scoop) to draw in air, I read up on this and the only draw back is, you really don't see a difference unless your highway driving (where the air pressure is much higher being forced into the system), but if your just sitting in a parking lot and tramp on the gas, the RAM Air won't really benifit anything. Also with the RAM Air Intake , it can be a weekly cleaning cycle because the air intake is coming from the outside of the car , its prone to bugs and dust getting into the filter, thus having to clean and clean. From what I read on a site theres 4 Air Intake Systems (if theres more please comment) 1) Hot Air Intake 2) Air Bath 3) Cold Air 4) RAM Air. I'm choosing the fenderwell CA method because it is out of the way of the Engine Compartment, and most CAI Kits I seen (that you can purchase for the 5.0L) ,are mounted in the fenderwell. So I guess its a method I'm taking. Just cause I here great improvements. :D
  11. Lex

    Lex Founding Member

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    Oh by the way. I do BELIEVE that the EEC (computer) adjusts the fuel and air mixture by the amount of air coming in. I noticed when I gutted my catalyic converters and started the engine. It stalled a few times, and after about the 5th turn over it ran better. I was told that the computer had to retrain itself to adapt to the new air flow going out to the exhaust. And from what I read of some that installed a CAI , they had the same experience, inwhich the computer had to re-program the fuel/air mixture. Some suggest un plugging the battery and reconnecting it before starting the car after you install the CAI. Not sure if that works. Someone could enlight us on this. So another words I don't think you can get toooo much air RAMMed into the TB. :D
  12. Lex

    Lex Founding Member

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    Well I got the K&N filter last night and went to Home Depot to get all the piping stuff. So tomorrow I will make the CAI. I will be taking pics and do up my design for others who care to see. I did buy all Black piping so it won't look too much like a sewer system. I will be listing the costs, lengths cut,how I made it, and time it took me. :D
  13. 140cilx

    140cilx Founding Member

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    Would you guys just for fun, go back to the pic I posted and explain what is not to like? It's so simple, looks pro quality and isn't drain pipe. I'm not trying to do a "if you don't do it my way it's wrong" deal, I just can't understand all the trouble for something that's subpar.

    And I looked at this post a couple times. You will feel a difference in power if you have the filter in the inner fender vs the engine bay. I know, because I've used it both way's. Inner fender air comes from outside the car, engine bay area air, although it circulates is still hotter. Try it, drive car, turn off car, pop hood, feel hot air, stick hand in inner fender, feel cool air. :shrug:

    You go to a muffler shop, you buy $5 worth of 3.5" galvanized tubing, you remove the intake muffler and airfilter box, reuse your rubber connections, cut the tube to length to meet the inner fender, use another 6 inch section to mount the K&N Cone and it's done.

    No manual needed, no PVC tubing, no gluing and painting and no parts list. No non-2.3 friends laughing at your "mod" behind your back.

    I just don't understand. :shrug: BUT I STILL LOVE ALL YOU GUYS!
  14. Lex

    Lex Founding Member

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    Ok I admit. I have a fetish for sewer pipe.................... :nice:

    Should I look at the "could of" pic or the "should of" pic 140cilx? Your design I think is great considering the filter is still located in the fenderwell. 2 reasons I'm doing a whole new setup. 1) I like the challenge and the type to go all the way designing stuff as its my hobbie and job (work stuff), and 2) because I do live in Halifax NS where it can get -30 C in the winter months, IF I have icing up in the throttle (which I been warned can happen) I can completely remove the CAI (which I hope I don't have to) and re-essemble the stock intake without swapping parts. Thats all. I still think your design kicks ass, I just want 2 complete different systems....Just incase this winter. :D
  15. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    140 glad the "should do" pic was not taken in direct sunlight. Loads of Bling in there. I never seen anything wrong with what you did. I was just thinking that Better flow could come in a Ram Style. Did you have to remove the fender to put the filter in?
  16. JamesBaumann

    JamesBaumann Member

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    Don't get me wrong here, 140cilx. I'm not trying to say that I think your setup is wrong, but rather that I would like to experiment with one of my own that I think may actually suck more air into my motor. If I end up having a problem with sucking water and road grime into my air induction setup then I will probably go with the inner fender well CAI.
  17. 140cilx

    140cilx Founding Member

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    Nothings bling. Several of my lines are braided, but nearly everything is custom on that car, so it's gotta be like that. Can't go to Advance and buy any stock replacement hoses for it - they won't work. Everything I handmade I finished to match. Nothing bling about that.

    No, you don't have to remove the fender to put the filter in. :lol:

    One thing you guys have missed mentioning about a Ram Air under the car is the heat off of the pavement. Sure companies make Ram Air's that mount under the front bumper, but it's not necessarily better. I was at the track at Commerce, GA yesterday, it was a comfy 'bout 80 degree's day, good T-shirt weather w/o sweating, nice breeze. Track Surface tempature was 127 degrees. The hotter the air is in your intake the lower your power, if you put a ram air intake under your bumper 6 inches off the pavement, during any season of the year the sun is out, you stand to lose power. Having it high enough to not pull in any of the superheated air off the pavement is a requirement, and remember a hood scoop method like the SVO's use doesn't alway's work in the method you'd think. Problem with the SVO's hood scoops (a ram air idea to cool the Intercooler), is that air flow's out of it backwards, actually heats the intercooler rather than cooling because there is negative air pressure flow over it at speeds under 40 (I think it is - point being it looks cool, but doesn't work).

    So the inner fender isn't the only answer but it's a good compromise, that's why so many factory cars come that way. Saleen is said to have put an intake under the cowl of some of their fox race cars in the 80's and had good results, but I've never seen a pic. Supposedly they would get a slight pressure increase in the intake tract as wind buffeted the windshield and created a positive pressure below the windshield at the cowl while at speed.

    So I wouldn't put it below the car, and a hood scoop has tradeoff's depending on it's size and location, and the cowl location was just to big a hassle for questionable improvement and inclimate weather. Makes the fender start looking good.
  18. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    140 you have some good points and better explanations. The "bling" I was talking about was all of that Polished aluminmum under that hood. Looks great but may blind someone in the direct sun light, No Offense. I have been sitting on my tail for a while now waiting to put a CAI on mine but cannot decide on what one to use and what list to work from. I did not think of the road surface temp when I was planning the under fender ram air, now I have to re think and head toward that fender well I guess.
  19. Lex

    Lex Founding Member

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    Is the CAI for your 93 LX kiddiccarus? My setup won't work due to the fact you have a MAF under the hood. My design I believe is good for engines 97-91 maybe earlier. Your sig mentioned 97 shopping cart though.... :scratch:
  20. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    I am going to use Jman's design due to me having the maf. I just want to see yours and your writeup I think that a lot of the things that you do will have good direction for the others that want to stay N/A. Me i am only N/A till the other motor is complete then I will swap out. Yes the shopping cart is a work in progress my N/A motor will power it when I am done. Long story on that one. Think Big Go Kart.

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