Can I Actually Delete All The Egr Crap?

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by Mark Steele, May 30, 2013.


  1. Mark Steele

    Mark Steele New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Edmond, Oklahoma
    Hi Guys.. I'm beginning a rebuild of my 1992 GT and I just installed Headers and new exhaust. I'd like to just get rid of all this emissions and EGR crap , wiring, conduit, and piping.
    Is this an actually reality and not do any major modifications to the engine?

    I have read and read about all the posts of EGR delete and smog pump delete. Can anyone give me a complete view of what can actually be replaced and what shouldn't?

    I have a 1992 Convertible GT 5.0... Thank You
    Mark
     
    #1
  2. FoxMustangLvr

    FoxMustangLvr Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Spokane, Wa
    I believe most people get talked out of the EGR smog delete since there is absolutely no benefit to performance and if anything it hurts your mpg's. However it does clean up some mess under the hood. The only good thing that's a no brainer if you don't have to smog your car is deleting cats and the smog pump/thermactor system. Good luck.
     
    #2
  3. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,050
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the garage
    Unless you get a tune, your car is going to spit out codes and trip the CEL. Some guys either push in the plunger and cap it off and/or buy a plug in resistor that "tricks' the computer into thinking the car is WOT to bypass the EGR circuit. You are going to get people on both sides of the fence on this, but in general

    The pros of deleting the EGR are you don't have hot exhaust gases circulating in your intake and it cleans up the engine.

    The cons are the codes, CEL, possible driveability issues, especially if you live in colder areas, MPG loss. Plus there is the whole removal of emissions parts and smog sniffers if applicable.

    In reality and just my opinion, unless you are trying to squeeze out every last hp for a primary strip car, it's not worth the 1-2 hp loss by removing it. The EGR does not impact WOT performance and the cost do remove it right with a block off plate and tune is not worth the effort.

    You'll get a similar argument for removal of the smog pump and hoses. You may get the codes but no CEL. Some people notice an increased gas smell from the exhuast. If you remove the smog equipment, you must remove the cats or eventually they will clog. In my own case, I have removed the smog crap on every Mustang I've owned for the last 25 years. I live in Fl though where there is no smog check and kept all the take off parts in case I ever sell the car. The HP increase from the H pipe and smog removal is maybe 10hp, but it does clean up the left side of the engine and the sound of the H pipe is much deeper.
     
    #3
  4. wyteelx

    wyteelx Founding Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2000
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ohio
    Plugs on the pass side are way easier to get to to check or change also a plus. Far as i know none of the codes you end up with (No CEL, my codes are 33, 44, 94 - egr and secondary air injection) affect drivability, didnt for me. I did all this too. I left egr in place just capped vac to it. Ive had mine off along time. You can run new vac lines to what you need, loose the rest of the mess, I did leave all the electronics (evp, evr , tad, tab, egr - just eliminated and capped off all the vacuum lines that I didnt need) hooked up though, you can make resistors (Search it if you want to do that) to eliminate them but I just tied em out of the way still plugged in. Does look WAY better, ill trade 1-2 ponies and even a little less mpg for that. We have no emissions test either in my part of Ohio.
     
    #4
  5. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt" SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    21,701
    Likes Received:
    320
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    My general experience is that most often than not, when i came across a 5.0 that was running poorly, it had to do with some particular thing that was "not needed because it's smog" that simply wasn't properly addressed when eliminated. You can delete whatever you want...the main question is was it done correctly?

    Everything under the hood has a purpose. You can remove most everything if you understand why it was there, what it's attempting to do and the consequences of removal and how to counteract that. The problem is when guys just rip things off in bulk..and then address the consequences. That's when you get the 'EFI is junk...i'm switching to carb crowd".

    You can remove the EGR simply by unplugging it and blocking the EGR port down at the cylinder head, or at the upper and lower intake. You will get a CEL however because code 33 will trip the light. DO NOT install resistors. You want the CEL to tell the ECU to disable the EGR function. If you trick the computer into thinking the EGR is in place and functional, you may find you run lean at part throttle cruise. Not something you want. Proper way to then tune it out is to get a custom tune that turns off the EGR function permanently. Then, you install the resistors to turn off the CEL.
     
    #5
  6. 1200gt

    1200gt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    19
    *******************************************************************************************************************************
    Finally Got it! - EGR Part. Thanks Mike.

    Can you speak to the best method of the smog pump delete? I decided to leave my EGR setup in place on my 86.

    I did remove the smog pump stuff already, though I have yet to fire the engine due to other work in progress. I just want to make sure I did everything necessary to make the car run correctly in the final run. I took everything Off the smog setup and just taped-off the wiring that connected to the Tad and TAB. All vac lines were terminated as related and I just capped the pipes coming from the back of the heads. I had no Cats anyway.

    What do you think?
     
    #6
  7. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,050
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the garage
    Removal of the smog and TAB/TAD correctly will not throw off any CEL. It may throw off some codes. Sounds like you did it properly. One thing you didn't mention was the cats which I assume are gone too. Can't run them for long with no smog pump.

    I wouldn't waste the money on a smog pump delete BTW. Just get a shorter belt. Those things have a nasty tendency to break and seize up.
     
    #7
  8. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2000
    Messages:
    21,817
    Likes Received:
    403
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Location:
    Dublin GA

    This is the best advice you are going to get. Take it and act on it.

    Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

    Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

    It's about $25-$40 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select books and then select search. Use the ISBN number (without dashes or spaces) to do a search. Try searching using M-1832-Z1 instead of the ISBN number if you don’t get any positive results. You may only be able to find a used one, since the book is as old as the cars it covers. Or you order it from your Ford dealer as SVO part no. M-1832-Z1.


    Use the ISBN number and your local library can get you a loaner copy for free. Only thing is you are limited to keeping the book for two weeks. It is very good, and I found it to be very helpful.
     
    #8
  9. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt" SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    21,701
    Likes Received:
    320
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    That's pretty much it for the smog pump. It's purpose is pretty simple...to provide fresh air for the cats. With no cats, it's not needed. You pretty much remove the plumbing as far back as you want (to the h-pipe and to the heads) and cap it and simply unplug the wiring. You'll have codes, but it won't trip the CEL and won't affect the way the car runs.
     
    #9
  10. 7991LXnSHO

    7991LXnSHO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,258
    Showcase:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Location:
    North Platte, NE
    Why do something you KNOW will make the computer kick out codes and hurt resale value for almost no benefit? At least saving all the parts will help the next owner or you if it causes trouble. 2 hp could be gained by a good, clean air filter. 12 hp can be gained across a broad stretch of the powerband with an electric fan. I know which mod I will do after my eventual head and intake swap.
     
    #10
  11. wyteelx

    wyteelx Founding Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2000
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ohio
    Thats how I want to do it, just started looking into getting someone to do the tuning. Anyone know a good spot in NE Ohio? Or a better / different way, moates, tweecer?

    Agreed, its a must have, teaches me something new every time I read through it
     
    #11
  12. 1200gt

    1200gt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    19
    I understand your points:

    For me, I will be keeping all my take-off parts for just such a possibilities that you described above.

    I have chosen to do this mod not sooooo much for the power gain, though it's welcomed, but rather for the engine bay clean=up and clearance for headers and maintenance access etc. I heaer that The freed up flywheel mass may even render a bit better gas mileage - yet to be realized because I'm not on the street yet.

    I have option for the E-fan and hop that your predicted 12hp will be real-world for me.

    As to the codes: As long as they don't effect drivability and I don't get too anal and begin to check for codes too often:nonono:, I think it will be nothing to worry about; after all, codes are just message to act upon if necessary or not.

    I assume you'll be doing the E-fan swap? What method will you use and what parts? Better-yet feel free to answer these question in the E-fan thread logged a few weeks back. I'm still in the process of pooling my parts for that mod too. See you over there... Don't want to hi-jack this thread.
     
    #12
  13. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,050
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    In the garage
    Dwayne,

    I would recommend a Taurus E fan and the FAL 33054 controller. Let me know if you need some help with the install.
     
    #13

Share This Page