Can you run power steering and A/C on the same belt?

[Clark]

I am trying to retrofit a Sanden A/C compressor in my 69 351W and have run into a bracket issue that holds the adjuster. It seems that the 351w in 69 is unique and difficult to find.

So I have two options run one belt for the P/S and A/C or try and modify a 302 bracket that will need some serious mods?

 

[DarkBuddha]

This exact thread was up a few weeks ago by another member. It seems all of us trying a Sanden retrofit to a ps equipped car are having the same problem. I've been having the same problem on the 302 in my Mach but I think we've finally solved it. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to take any pics since my father's digital camera was stolen and he hasn't replaced it yet.

Anyways, as for your question, I did have both the a/c and ps running on one belt, but it was always problematic. First issue was getting a proper length belt... they were all either a bit too long or a bit too short. Strange how 1/4" can make a difference, but it did. This led to our second problem which was getting adequate tension on the belt to prevent slipping. When we finally got both of those solved, I thought we were home free, but as it turned out, by using one belt on both pulleys, there simply wasn't enough "bite" on the a/c pulley. Once the compressor actually kicked on, the extra resistance caused the belt to slip and squeal into uselessness. Final verdict for us was that we needed to get 'em on two separate belts.

So, now we've been able to get 'em onto two separate belts which seems to work much better. As soon as I can (as I've promised several folks now) I'll post pics of the new setup. I also just want to mention I'm not using the stock York compressor bracket at all. The bracket I'm using is from Southern Rods and is a pretty simple design where the compressor sits on a platform that pivots to create tension.

For illustrative purposes only, here is a pic of the way we had it set up with the single belt running both pullies:



Hope this helps...

 

[Clark]

Thanks for the input,

I was wondering if you could run both without any issues. I have seen another bracket offered on another vwebsite but this raises the compressor two more inches and looks like it does not belong. You said that you used a different compressor bracket but I am concerned that the P/S pump needs that bracket to thread that long bolt through?

The other question from the picture is was this belt the only one running the water pump as well? I just know that extra pull from that could not have helped.

 

[DarkBuddha]

Thanks for the input,

I was wondering if you could run both without any issues. I have seen another bracket offered on another vwebsite but this raises the compressor two more inches and looks like it does not belong. You said that you used a different compressor bracket but I am concerned that the P/S pump needs that bracket to thread that long bolt through?

Yeah, the bracket I'm using can raise the compressor pretty darn high (for tension adjustment) and is already a bit higher than the stock York compressor base already. That said, with the right belt, I could actually adjust the belt tension just using the ps pump adjustment only. And while the ps pump bracket uses the same holes as the a/c bracket, that bolt is only important as an achor/pivot point. It's an extraordinarily long bolt to begin with and adding the different bracket didn't make much of a difference.

The other question from the picture is was this belt the only one running the water pump as well? I just know that extra pull from that could not have helped.

For that particular pic, you are correct: it was the only belt driving the water pump. We went through several setups that kept 2 belts on the water pump at all times, but it simply didn't make a difference in the final one-belt-a/c-ps pump setup. This included running an extra alternator belt over the water pump (obviously using a 2 groove wp pulley). It still slipped when the compressor kicked on. Unfortunately, there simply wasn't any way to not include the water pump in the a/c belt circuit. It would've been nice to be able to isolate just the a/c compressor and drive it directly from the crank. As you well know, that simply isn't an option.

 

[Tubo(2-bo)]

Why not go serpentine? Pulleys & brackets from a Lightning perhaps.

 

[jbuening]

Yeah that was me that posted this awhile back. Didn't get much help IIRC. On Classic Auto Air's website, they have a pic of their Daily Driver setup. Its the last pic at the bottom of the page. They run a single belt to run the a/c compressor and the alternator. Thats the only other alternative that i can think of and the alternator has much more belt adjustment than the powersteering pump does. I think thats the route i am going whenever i get all my parts purchased. Anyone know of the cheapest place to buy all the a/c hoses? I need the sight glass and other hoses as well, mine are all trashed.

Oh and the serpentine setup requires a reverse flow waterpump, something i don't have.

 

[Clark]

I have tried to see the belt setup on the Classic Auto Air picture but it is not clear so going to the Alternator I am not sure will work but I am looking at all options.

Dark Budda, I am wondering if the setup on my 351W the pulley's are a little more spread apart than the 302 because it seems like mine makes a more diamond shape.

 

[DarkBuddha]

Dark Budda, I am wondering if the setup on my 351W the pulley's are a little more spread apart than the 302 because it seems like mine makes a more diamond shape.

Well, the 351W block is definitely wider than the 302 by a couple inches, which might make a big difference for belt routing. I'll see if I can my father to take some pics of the new setup this weekend, right after I convince him to spend the $100 to buy a new digital camera.

Anyone know of the cheapest place to buy all the a/c hoses? I need the sight glass and other hoses as well, mine are all trashed.

I got my entire setup from Southern Rods, including the compressor, bracket, dryer with built-in high/low switch, hose kit, condensor. The hose kit is ok, but not ideal for our setups... the metal ends bend at pretty tight angles which makes the connections at the compressor problematic. Usually you want to mount the compressor with hoses going off the side to provide better hood clearance. As you can see from the pic above, we had to mount mine straight up, which puts it damn close to the hood. Other than that, there was plenty of hose to work with. I just measured out the sections and we took it to a local hose shop and had them crimp the ends on properly. You can check out Southern Rods here: http://161.58.79.191/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/Store/default.asp?E+scstore

All of that said, if I was doing it all over again, I'd give Classic Auto Air a call and see what they can do for you. I thought I was saving money with my approach, but in the end, it was only a couple hundred less than buying one of their driver kits, which are supposedly "bolt-in".

 

[jbuening]

http://www.classicautoair.com/compressors.asp

Seems they run it also with the two belt alternator system. Second picture shows the setup.

 

[Clark]

Thanks for all the help and advice, I will be working on this over the weekend and will let you know what worked or not. As for the so called "bolt-on" kits, it is not as simple as they make it out. If anyone else has any ideas or suggestions let me know.

 

[Clark]

jbeuning, You are da MAN!

That idea of using the ALT and A/C on the same belt looks like the best chance of making thia work. Iused a Gates 7580 belt and it looks pretty clean. The real test will be once I get the A/C system hooked up and charged and turn on that compressor, but here is a picture.

 

[jbuening]

Nice Keep us updated on how it turns out when its all hooked up. Looks like i know the route i'm gonna go with mine

 

[DarkBuddha]

Well, it looks like you've found a viable solution, but I thought I'd post the solution that pops came up for my car. He finally broke down and bought a super cheap replacement digital camera and sent these to me last night. As you can see, the compressor, ps pump, and alternator each have their own belt. It was just a matter of finding a u-pull-it $2 double pulley for the ps pump. Here are the pics:

Compressor side:

Compressor from top:

Alternator side:

PS pump:

Crank and water pump:

Hope this helps a bit...

 

[Hissing Cobra]

Why not go serpentine? Pulleys & brackets from a Lightning perhaps.

I was thinking the same thing. If you guys have 351 Windsors, can't you use all of the pulley's/brackets from a late model Mustang or Lightening and adapt them?

I did this on my '79 Mustang Cobra by buying a new alternator with a serpentine pulley, changing the pulley on the power steering pump to a serpentine unit, installing the factory belt tensioner, purchasing underdrive pulleys and 3 trips to the auto parts store to find a belt that fits. I love the way it looks and it works fantastic.

 

[jbuening]

I was thinking the same thing. If you guys have 351 Windsors, can't you use all of the pulley's/brackets from a late model Mustang or Lightening and adapt them?

I did this on my '79 Mustang Cobra by buying a new alternator with a serpentine pulley, changing the pulley on the power steering pump to a serpentine unit, installing the factory belt tensioner, purchasing underdrive pulleys and 3 trips to the auto parts store to find a belt that fits. I love the way it looks and it works fantastic.

In order to use the belt tensioner system with serpentine pulleys on our cars you have to install a reverse flow waterpump. I've got wayyyy too much money in my standard flow waterpump to get another one. I plan on installing serpentine pulleys from march in the near future, but they will still be the separate belts and not the long single serpentine belt with the tensioner.

Oh and DarkBuddha, nice find! What vehicle did that power steering pulley come from? Still gonna try using the alternator belt with the A/C compressor, but if that fails i now have a backup plan!

 

[Hissing Cobra]

Understood! I forgot about that. Suppose one didn't have a regular waterpump, would the reverse flow pump work on a 351 W?

 

[jbuening]

Yeah a late model 5.8L reverse flow pump would work on an early block. Thats the route i probably should have went

 

[DarkBuddha]

Oh and DarkBuddha, nice find! What vehicle did that power steering pulley come from? Still gonna try using the alternator belt with the A/C compressor, but if that fails i now have a backup plan!

I'll find out tonight.

 

[Clark]

After major pains finding out that I have a mix of 69-70 A/C parts and waiting on the UPS man the setup I mentioned earlier works. I ran the compressor and the alternator on the same belt and charged the system and it ran like a champ, just in time for winter :damnit: