Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by 351CJ, Dec 3, 2004.


  1. thehemi

    thehemi New Member

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    You also get an additional 100-hp and 80-ft/lb of torque.
    To some people... the added fuel costs might be worth it.
  2. corey796

    corey796 New Member

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    ouch :rlaugh:
  3. Gloveperson

    Gloveperson New Member

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    In the article, didn't the Mustang win by one point and got a large number of those "points" for the 5000 dollar price gap? I didn't read the article but a buddy of mine was telling me about it. If so, that would hardly count as being that much better than the 05 GTO as some of you are proclaiming.

    edit: Just heard more about the article; the Mustang did indeed win by one point and it got seven points for the "gotta have it" catagory. The question begs to be asked was this catagory added before or after the test was done and the numbers were tallied up. Seems sort of fishy to me :notnice:

    To the person who asked about the skip shift feature; I believe the 05 does have that. And I drive an LS1 and I get 18-19 on full city driving and I have that feature disabled. I get that because I don't get on it on many tank fulls, shift early because the engine has enough torque to do that and accelerate only how much I need.

    In regards to premium fuel costs (for me that is 93), IDK about where you guys live, but I buy premium fuel when one of the local station's has it on sale which is Tuesdays for me. On Tuesday's it costs .01 more than 87 Octane which is a whopping .52 cents a year.

    About the performance numbers; if I remember correctly, Car and Driver prints averages and not best times. If so, I believe that would explain the poor times for both cars but in paticular the GTO.

    We all know how difficult it is to launch an 04 GTO with the IRS which most likely means the 05 will be no easier with the 18's I thought it was going to get and the more torque that is available at lower RPMS. I am going to assume that the car they had was all over the place in the testing because of that simple feature, just like the 03/04 Cobra was when drivers just got the car.

    I was kind of surprised that Car and Driver gave the Mustang "best Muscle car" though. I didn't know that was a catagory since I can only think of two cars that I would catagorize as a muscle car. Even in the article, my buddy mentioned to me that C&D commented on the fact that they had to make the GT beat the GTO because of the fact that they had already decided that the GT was the best muscle car of 2005. That sounded a little fishy to me, but maybe it is because I am biased.

    The fact does remain that the 05 GTO is a better performace car; I don't think anyone can dispute that. The fact also remains that it is more than likely that you get more for the money with the Mustang, but you also get more for the money when you buy an SRT-4 or other car like that so that argument holds little water in my book.

    Other than that, I enjoy both cars and hope that the LS2 gets a good aftermarket like the 05 Mustang seems to have. :flag:

    It would be a hard choice for me to decide on either of them, I would take both :D

    Oh and Bob Cosby, nice to see that you go to boards that aren't LS1tech political :nice: :banana:

    (sorry for the essay :doh: )

    -Todd
  4. TRAMS_AM

    TRAMS_AM New Member

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    I registered to reply to this, but am not here to troll.

    Both sides of this debate have good points, but I feel that I must add a few:

    Us GTO owners often feel that our car is over scrutinized by almost everyone, enthusiasts and the general public alike. It’s more than understandable that we get defensive at times, even though the GTO is an excellent car, and easily earns its name (what makes a car a GTO, rear-drive performance and a V8, or stripes and Ram Air?)

    While some people here on Stangnet feel that there is a massive influx of GM goons, there have been numerous unprovoked attacks on the GTO on our forums, and many of them were Mustang owners (so this is where many become leery of threads like this, which is one of the more civil ones I’ve seen). We have a number of great members who are Mustang owners also, though, who can objectively discuss and compare cars and understand that there are several factors that are relevant when gauging a car’s worth. People like that are welcome anytime on our boards, regardless of their preferred mode of transportation.

    The vast majority of GTO owners aren’t stuck up elitists, either. The same has been said of Corvette and Cobra fans as well, but we know this isn’t true. We just get tired of having our car universally hated when in fact it’s a wonderful machine that doesn’t deserve the incredible amount of negative attention it’s received.

    A little background on why I chose this “Grand Prix on steroids” (which had no problems eviscerating my friend's '01 Lightning :) ):

    I traded my 2000 Trans Am for the GTO and haven’t regretted it since. Almost everything the T/A did the Goat does better, and the things it lacks in are so minor that they are easily outweighed by the positives. I find it’s styling to be subtle and graceful, and definitely draws less attention than either of my T/A’s did (which is a huge plus when you’re hauling posterior). I don’t hate Mustangs or Fords, it’s just that I happened to fall for the F-body and the LS1.

    A few points of interest about the GTO and it’s lineage:

    The ’05 GTO’s MSRP is expected to be $33,690 for the manual, and $34,295 for the auto. For your money you get a car with as much power as the ’03-’04 Cobra, a plush (but not flashy) interior, and no squeaks or rattles, which was a big reason I couldn’t take my T/A anymore. While definitely more money than a ’05 GT, I wouldn’t think twice about dropping the extra cash.

    The GTO is indeed based on the Commodore, which is a Bathurst winning car year after year. It seems to have been a smart decision on Holden’s part, though, as the many rebadgings of the Monaro are praised by the international press (Top Gear even picked the Vauxhall Monaro VXR, which is a HSV GTO, over a Jaguar. These guys hated the C6 and belittled the ’05 Mustang, by the way. Visit www.hsv.com.au and check out the great hi-po stuff that the Aussies whip up).

    As far as the C&D article, we should all be able to agree that the numbers they got out of their GTO are lower than expected. 400hp should do more damage than 13.3, especially when ‘04’s are running lower than that.

    Route666 - We have several Holden owners on our GTO board and they're all very polite. Everyone at LS1.com.au is also very respectful and well spoken. It could just be that the ones you remember are the yahoos (I do believe your country coined that term, no?)

    It all comes down to what you like. I really wish the GM/Ford divide wasn’t so wide, though. Us rear-drive domestic V8 guys should stick together, there’re EVO VIII’s and STi’s out there that need our attention :).

    Thanks for the airtime and sorry for the verbose nature of this post.
  5. TxFrog1999

    TxFrog1999 Founding Member

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    Blah Blah Blah... until we have an 05 GT with an SC under the hood and other go-fast parts equalling the 5K difference in sticker price race a GTO we'll just have to go by C&D's data and crown the Mustang the winner. :nice:
  6. fivepointNO

    fivepointNO Founding Member

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    The win came via overall points. Both cars got "gotta have it" points, but the MustangGT got more of them, as it was the more preferred car in their testing. Apparently all the testers agreed on this. That really does make a statement.

    On the whole, we're not proclaiming the GT as a much better car. But you do get more for your money in most peoples opinion, and all those in the article. You can bet the category existed before the points were added. If they were truly looking for a way to give the Mustang a win, they'd simply have lowered a number elsewhere for the GTO. It seems all to obvious to me, there's no reason whatsoever to add a category when you control all the numbers to begin with.
  7. Gloveperson

    Gloveperson New Member

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    You mean an IRS and better grade interior bits :) :p
  8. Gloveperson

    Gloveperson New Member

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    I still am trying to figure out what "gotta have it" means though. That is a very subjective catagory in anyone's opinion.
  9. fivepointNO

    fivepointNO Founding Member

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    Where do you people come up with the "better grade interior" comments? Most of you haven't even glanced at the Mustangs interior, and are merely going by what other GTO owners say. The GTO has a very nice interior, but so does the Mustang. There's little difference in the actual materials used for both and GM is "light years" away from being known to have sturdy interiors, even if they look nice.

    I honestly would like for just anyone to point out how they know the GTO's interior is even as good, much less better than that of the MustangGT. Knowing how GM had problems for years makes me wonder. That's not even addressing the creeks and rattles I've been reading about in the GTO.
  10. TxFrog1999

    TxFrog1999 Founding Member

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    Uh, the Mustang has a nicer interior and I don't think an IRS would help win in acceleration, besides the stang already spanks the Goat in the only areas where an IRS would help.
  11. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    Well the problem becomes instead of defending the car these "nice people" decide to become the very thing they detest and start trolling other forums. I don't think anybody would have a problem with the GTO owners being over here IF they were able to comport themselves with some modicum of respectfulness. You can "defend" your car all you want but the second you start ranging out to "look for a fight" and not just provide objective information then you are a troll and should be treated as such. I've seen the trollish threads on ls1gto.com from Mustang owners and they are ridiculous but I don't understand how a person can see a troll screwing up their site and then they decide the best way to respond to this is go off and be a bigger troll on another board. This doesn't solve the problem it compounds it as someone from over here will start going over to say newagegto and start trolling. Then someone from there will go over to say modulardepot and start trolling so on and so forth until nobody is safe from the idiots.


    I'll lay it out for you as cut and dry as I can possibly put it. If you want people to respect your opinion you need to respect theirs. I respect the GTO but I don't like the price and I don't like the looks. Simply put. If I had 32k to spend on a car it wouldn't be on that GTO. If you like the car fine but I and others may not like it. But the proper response to people who DON'T like the car isn't to belittle the car THEY like as some kind of infantile tit for tat game where you have to "get back" at the people who have some how slighted you.

    I suppose in closing it's not what you say in defense of your car it's how you say it. And coming onto another board and acting in such a child like manner like some of your compatriots have is just bad form old bean. :)
  12. Route666

    Route666 Active Member

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    The V8 supercars are nothing like the production cars. They are $200k Rollcages, suspensions and engines with car bodies welded back around them. That's actually how they make them, they cut a body up, build a cage in, and weld the body back together around it. The engines are limited to 5 litres ffs. Holden doesn't even make five litre production cars anymore, in fact neither does Ford, especially 650+hp five litres... Plus there's that lovely fact that both the Ford and Holden teams use the good old Ford nine inch diff...

    That's exactly right, and I don't remember seeing any Ford drivers yahooing...
  13. ruffy

    ruffy Member

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    I like the picture of the GTO with the spoiler kit and the hood scoops. If they built that I'm sure it would give Mustang a run for the money in sales. It would be nice to see the Camaro and Firebird come back. This time GM needs to keep the price in the 25k range and let the owners jazz them up if they decide to do so.


    Well I hate to admit it but my '05 is costing me 32,731. Thats FULLY loaded, shipping to Germany, and all those other BS charges they hose you for. Like 276.00 Customer Delivery Show Vehicle. I ordered it, why should I pay 276 for this guy to show my car? Show it to who? :shrug:
    Don't answer that.
  14. Fast GTO

    Fast GTO New Member

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    My car is purrtier
    My car runs lower grade gas
    My car is cheaper
    I can spend $6,000 and make it as fast as you

    What ricer doesn't this sound like?
  15. TxFrog1999

    TxFrog1999 Founding Member

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    Fast GTO, you really need to gain some perspective. You are attempting to compare a $28,000 car to a $34,000 car both with different HP ratings. The Mustang already out handles the GTO, and with an SC you can bet it would whip it in the 1/4 mile as well. Truth hurts, buyers remorse is a bit*h, get over yourself.
  16. TxFrog1999

    TxFrog1999 Founding Member

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    Oh and your car is ugly, will always be ugly and no amount of body work or plastic GM parts will make it worthy of its namesake.
  17. TRAMS_AM

    TRAMS_AM New Member

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    I agree with pretty much everything you said, good post.

    Most of my ‘compatriots’, as you put it, are good people (as I’m sure yours are). We just get to see the ugly sides of each-other more often, huh?

    Personally, I don’t get excited over arguments of opinion. As you stated, it’s everyone’s right to like and dislike what they choose. It’s the unbridled contempt for the GTO that raises my interest. People seem to just love to hate it, and entirely for aesthetic reasons. Since I happen to think it looks great and I love to have a sleeper, it’s perfect.

    TxFrog1999 & fivepointNO – It’s not like Ford has a reputation for beautiful interiors, either. I’ve spent some time with a variety of GM and Ford interiors, and neither would give me an impression of quality. The ’05 Mustang may have changed this, and the ’04 GTO is definitely the star GM interior, at least stateside. The Aussies have fancier, more European tastes and US GM materials wouldn’t cut it over there. Holden’s stuff is very different from what GM offers here, and while I’ll reserve judgment about the ‘Stang’s interior until I’ve seen it in person, I suggest you do the same for the GTO.

    Route666 - You're right about the V8 Supercar Series cars not being too stock anymore (although it's not as drastic a departure as stock cars are here). I suppose a better example would be the Rhys Millen drift GTO, the Horizon Grand Am GTO, or the Autosport Development Speed Challenge car, all of which remain largely stock (gutted, of course, and with some suspension and engine modifications). Just saying that this haphazard sedan-based car is a great platform for us yahoos to haul around in. And who on earth doesn’t use a 9” :) ? Well, the AD Speed Challenge car uses a ‘Vette rear, but aside from them…
  18. 01'TRUE BLUE GT

    01'TRUE BLUE GT Founding Member

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    Some of you get all worked-up over nothing. I could care less about the GTO and C&D ... they both suck in my book. Who cares what C&D says anyway ... did you guys forget about their bs review of the Mach I when it came out??? :nonono:
  19. dozlert

    dozlert New Member

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    V-8 Warriors,

    Have any of you thought about possible reasons why C & D rated their cars like that? They will sell one of those mags to every Mustang GT owner which is much higher numbers than the GTO owners. Best policy...just be happy with your car, after all, you are the only one that car has to satisfy. I like the looks of the exterior GT, but I believe the GTO has the quality interior and engine. If I had to buy a Ford I would like the Ford GT 350s...nice...or a 66 GTO, wow! Anyhow, just appreciate what you have and take care of it.
  20. Bob Cosby

    Bob Cosby Founding Member

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    Much of any comparison between two cars is going to be subjective. In fact, virtually everything except raw, measureable numbers are subjective - and even those raw numbers are subject to subjective interpretation.

    While it is possible that C&D's staff decided that they'd let the Mustang "win" in a bid to increase magazine sales, is it not just as possible that they really did prefer the GT over the GTO, when everything was said and done? Having read the relavent posts on LS1GTO.com and newagegto.com, I know its a stretch for some of you to believe it possible for a sane person to pick a Mustang over a Goat, but it does happen - and it doesn't make that person any dumber or poorer than you - just different.

    I do get a kick out of these conspiracy theories though....right out of the Moveon.org playbook (that one's for you, Gloveperson :D ).

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