Engine Car Running Great But Few Issues

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by 5point0stang88, Oct 22, 2013.


  1. 5point0stang88

    5point0stang88 Active Member

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    My exhaust video here youtu.be/23wJ2BbrQMU

    I'm really glad the project came out great. Twice yesterday around 45mph it lit the tires up and got sideways.

    Here are my engine off codes
    81-SecondaryAirDiverterCircuitFailure(O)
    82-SecondaryAirBypassCircuitFailure(O)
    85-CANPCircuitFailure(O)
    95-FuelPumpCircuitOpen-PCMToMotorGround(CM,O)

    Haven't ran engine on codes yet.

    My car bucks and any rpm when I give light throttle. Moderate to heavy throttle and the bucking goes away, why?

    Also I am running really rich and only get 10mpg something must be wrong right. I get exactly half fuel mileage I got before the engine overhaul. I was expecting better since the engine is more efficient.

    Thank you for any help!
     
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  2. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

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    Is this an 88 with a Mass Air Conversion?

    Most are smog related codes, is all that still on the car?
     
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  3. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt" SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Sounds like it's a Mass-air converted speed density car with those codes. Code 95 usually gives that away.

    Code 81, 82 and 85 suggest the air pump system and charcoal canister have been removed.

    Code 95 usually appears when one doesn't run the fuel pump monitoring wire from the pump relay to the EEC.

    I bet if you run the engine running codes, you get a VSS code as well as others, perhaps EGR codes too.
     
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  4. 5point0stang88

    5point0stang88 Active Member

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    No smog and yes its an 88 with mass air conversion. SmartGuys lol
     
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  5. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

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    Yeah, then those codes dont mean much to you. Youll need the KOER codes for sure.
     
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  6. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt" SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Yup. Run the engine running codes.


    Code 95...

    http://www.stangnet.com/2002/01/23/mustang-mass-air-conversion/

    Step 5 is needed to be done during the mass air conversion. That will eliminate the code. Don't worry too much about getting this done. Doesn't affect how the car runs.


    However, step 6 is a tad important, and if you haven't done this you might want to.
     
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  7. 5point0stang88

    5point0stang88 Active Member

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    Thank you I saved that page and will look into it
     
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  8. Gearhead92

    Gearhead92 Member

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    I also have a few code questions.

    I received a 13R and 23R, which is tps and idle RPM range. THose I can fix.

    The rest were:

    85O, which says Shift Solenoid 3/4-4/3. I have no idea what that means. Nor did I find much from a quick google search.
    41R and 91R. Both state HEGO (H2OS) Sensor voltage low/system lean
    33R EGR valve not opening properly

    I couldn't care less about the EGR. I just finished a GT40 intake on my '88, and didn't hook the coolant lines up, but the rest is all plugged in. I don't think this code is anything to worry about.

    I believe that the 41R and 91R are essientailly saying I'm getting too much air? (correct me if I am wrong) But I also put in 24lb injectors, and I know for a fact I'm running rich. The smell, black residue on my bumper, and the decrease in gas mileage is a good tell.

    The 85O is what I'm concerned about. Any advice or info?

    Also, does anyone know of any shops in MD or Southern PA, that will do a re-program of my EEC/ECM for the new injectors?
     
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  9. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Code 41 or 91 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

    Revised 29-Sep-2013 to add back in a clogged crossover tube as cause for code 41

    Code 41 is a RH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
    Code 91 is the LH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

    Code 172 is the RH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
    Code 176 is the LH side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

    The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

    The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
    "When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

    When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

    Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

    Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

    Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
    Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.

    Disconnect the O2 sensor from the harness and use the body side O2 sensor harness as the starting point for testing. Do not measure the resistance of the O2 sensor , you may damage it. Resistance measurements for the O2 sensor harness are made with one meter lead on the O2 sensor harness and the other meter lead on the computer wire or pin for the O2 sensor.

    Backside view of the computer wiring connector:
    [​IMG]

    87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
    The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

    91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
    The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


    Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
    Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


    Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

    Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
    Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer. Using the Low Ohms range (usually 200 Ohms) you should see less than 1.5 Ohms.

    87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
    Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
    From the Dark blue/Lt green wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Dark blue/Lt green wire on the computer pin 43
    From the Dark Green/Pink wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Dark Green/Pink wire on the computer pin 43

    91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
    Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
    From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 43
    From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 29

    94-95 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 29 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 27 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
    From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 29
    From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 27

    There is a connector between the body harness and the O2 sensor harness. Make sure the connectors are mated together, the contacts and wiring are not damaged and the contacts are clean and not coated with oil.

    The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

    Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

    Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

    Code 41 can also be due to carbon plugging the driver’s side Thermactor air crossover tube on the back of the engine. The tube fills up with carbon and does not pass air to the driver’s side head ports, Remove the tube and clean it out so that both sides get good airflow: this may be more difficult than it sounds. You need something like a mini rotor-rooter to do the job because of the curves in the tube. Something like the outer spiral jacket of a flexible push-pull cable may be the thing that does the trick.

    If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.

    Code 85 - CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing. Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
    The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

    Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel. The canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.

    [​IMG]

    It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?


    The purge valve solenoid connector is a dangling wire that is near the ECT sensor and oil filler on the passenger side rocker cover. The actual solenoid valve is down next to the carbon canister. There is about 12"-16" of wire that runs parallel to the canister vent hose that comes off the bottom side of the upper intake manifold. That hose connects one port of the solenoid valve; the other port connects to the carbon canister.

    The purge valve solenoid should be available at your local auto parts store.

    Purge valve solenoid:
    [​IMG]


    The carbon canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.
    Carbon Canister:
    [​IMG]
     
    #9
  10. 5point0stang88

    5point0stang88 Active Member

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    Damn all this knowledge thank you. I fixed my very bad fuel mileage by hooking up the ground wire to the hego circuit
     
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  11. Gearhead92

    Gearhead92 Member

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    Great info. I guess code 85 doesn't mean shift solenoid? I'll be checking the O2 sensors, purge solenoid, and carbon canister.
     
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