Are you a local chairman? No, we aren’t talking about the airline(s) fundamentally. I gave an example of how bankruptcy for a company with a unionized workforce does not mean “game over”. It means get your priorities straight, cleanse the moss, and come back swinging. It’s capitalism. Some survive, some don’t. Where do we draw the line for casting a lifeline out to an ailing entity? The reason this issue is such a risk and hot topic is because the underlying problem of complacency has swollen to a gorging zit head now because of the past 25 to 35 years of inaction, with the automotive companies letting them (UAW) hold the ball and determine the pace & cost all along, catering to every perceived labor "need" (like billiard tables, lounges with entertainment centers, and pay for doing absolutely nothing). My company has about 42,000 union employees. They do not run the company in contrast to the way the UAW seems to control the Big3 (ultimately, they were a key factor in deciding the fate of them in the recently proposed bailout). Why? We work with them a lot closer than what it appears the domestic automotive makers seem to. We bargain, concede, and compromise quite often and also take advantage of technology at every single moment we can in order to help make everyone’s job easier and Heaven forbid, more productive. One fine example is robotics in the auto industry. You’d think a robot fabricating panels onto a steel frame instead of a contracted worker would save the maker money in labor cost, right? Wrong, not the Big3’s case. They pay for the robot and for the worker to sit on his dead ass. Why? The union knowingly milks the wage expense (and “magically” still gets union dues because the workers are locked into a contract) and the maker can’t do a damn thing because he’s under a contract likely signed decades ago, before any notion of production line automation was more than some bean counter’s wet dream. Maybe it is their (Big3) fault for signing such an egregious arrangement. Maybe the union should have realized, much sooner than now, that the cow might some day dry up...
You guys are really anti union. You are only seeing one facet of the US auto industries problems. Posted via Mobile Device
if the suppliers shut down, won't they just start right back up once the assembly line does? Granted, that sucks for the workers, but at least they'll be guaranteed (?) a job when that happens, unlike so many of my "coworkers" that lost jobs this year. The City of Atlanta laid some 300-400 people. As for fire at will, isn't that the right of the employer? When I took my job, I fully understand that I could be fired at will. Most jobs are like that. Why should union workers be immune from that? Because they pay dues every month/paycheck?
Nope....because they decided to join together to protect their jobs. While many think the auto union has gotten greedy....don't hate on them because your job isn't protected while their's is. Jealousy is such an ugly thing.
I'm not the one blaming the unions for the Big 3 going bankrupt. And I tell people to take off their blinders because everyone keeps going on about how the unions are the reason for the problems with the Big 3. If life were only so simple. Why don't you chill out a little bit.
And Just WHO is paying the Union???? Who is giving the union money to pay the workers on the down time?? Ford, GM, and Chrysler NO?????? I'd rather buy from the Car company.. You know why??? A Bankrupt airline means they have less money for things... Things like Maintenance. I would not want to be on a poorly maintained plain, worrying about the risk that it will crash and I could DIE.. I'd buy the car from a bankrupt auto company, because i know if they go under, some aftermarket company will end up making replacement parts, and i would be able to maintain the car myself... I think its completely asinine that people are saying that the general public wouldn't buy from a bankrupt auto manufacturer. Like what reasons would you NOT want to buy from one???
I wouldn't want to buy a new mustang without knowing if I could get warranty work done on it. Same with the Challenger. Same with a new Vette.
BUT you'd fly on an airline that was bankrupt,, probably not keeping up on their plane's maintenance??? cmon people!!!!!
I really over simpklified to make a point. I[m not saying his job isn't worth what he makes...just saying you can base a persons wages on what they actually do. A pilot has a lot of responsibilty and he also spends 4-6 years in training making less than I do. Not for me to determine. Is their job worth that much? Likely not but how can you determine if an autoworker is worth $25 and hour or 40? My job doesn't require a whole lot in brain power but I think the wear and tear on my body is worth something more than $9 an hour. Who's to say that McDonalds worker isn't worth more for inhaling french fry fumes all day? You can but he won't be able to make sure the weight and balance of the aircraft is correct. Besides...what would you do if you saw a bunch of monkeys on an airplane? PS...See above post...I was over simplifying to make a point. I never said it was fair but I challange anyone to come up with a rule to detemine whay each job should be paid...and when you do try to get people to do those jobs based on that determination. That is why communism works so well, right? My sentiments exactly...I can't figure out why working class stiffs like us would have any animosity for a working group of people wo have done well for themselves. No one in their right mind would believe a company will do right on their own to make sure workers are paid well and are happy. It is why unions came about to begin with and why other can enjoy the life they lead. Take away the union or the influence of the union and you will lead down that path again. it's not that simple...there are checks and balance on AC maintenance. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen but I've never seen an airline purposely skimp on maintenance to keep operating. Too risky.
They have in the past but always stopped when engines and stuff started falling off their planes on a regular basis.
I'd find another airline! I agree with you 100% on the unions. I guess people liked working 100 hours a week for less than minimum wage, in unsafe and hazardous conditions, and you get fired if you fart the wrong direction. Oh wait....that's how your job is now? Sucks don't it. You're telling me if a group of people at your job came to you and said "how would you like to get paid the same, work half as much, and have more job security...and it will cost you a little bit each paycheck?" Would you really say no...unions suck go away?
{inserts foot in mouth} i was wrong about how union members will be paid during the layoff. i confused the Job Banks, Strike fund and layoff situation into one mess. yes i'm an idiot for doing so. they DO NOT get 95% from the Big 3. they DO however get what unemployment does not cover. so if unemployment is say 70%, the Big 3 kick in 30% from my understanding. the 95% pay happens when employees are laid off for more than 48weeks from what i've read. they do however get paid from the UAW when there is a strike. but other than that, i stand 100% by my other arguements.
