Cold start - valvetrain tap/knock

[QuickCapri83]

99 Limited GT, 109k, everything seems perfect, except, cold starts. Not necessarily cold, but like, if the car sits over night etc etc, or cold, either or.
Basically, i'm getting a slight knock, it's more like a knock than tap, I swear it sounds just like my old 5.0 that had a bad lifter or something, but in that car the problem went away on it's own after like 10k miles. Anyways, what's annoying is, well, it doesnt do it every morning, but defonantly most of the time, lasts about 4-5 minutes, then gone, completly. After that it sounds like a brand new engine, no noise whatsoever, it's also been VERY well maintained, and i'd say 50% of the miles are highway. Is this something I should really care about, or let it go? It is defonantly coming from the valvetrain, the bottom end is soooollid, full compression across the board, never a bit of smoke, and, well it's obvious when hearing it that it's coming from the top end. Any tips, advice, thanks guys


:SNSign: >>>>

 

[tha great one]

sounds kinda like its just taking time for the oil pump to get the oil upstairs [so to speak] anyway go to autozone and get some lucas oil additive its real good and it bonds to the metal so it always lubicated. what does your oil pressure look like? noticed any leaks? do you park your car outside? does it just happen when it is cold? what about on a warm day if you run in a store or [nudie bar] for a couple of hours? will it do it then?

 

[QuickCapri83]

It only happens when the car sits like...atleast 6-8 hours, like, a complete cold start so to speak. But I mean, I pretty much only drive it like once a day, but even when I drive it multiple times, it would have to sit for plenty of hours for it to do it again, and if so, it go's away much faster than it would if it sat overnight. The car is garaged, so, always 10-15* cooler in the garage than outside. Um..no leaks, no smoke, nothing like that at all. Oil pressure is perfect, and oil is always at perfect level, i'm a bit compulsive, take good care of her, also, I use royal purple 10w-30, and ProLong with every oil change, oh and I use the K&N oil filter, that's pretty much it. The motor is stock except for the Roush CAI, which could'nt effect it, and the exhaust, again, could'nt effect it. The sound is coming directly from the top of the motor, and once it's warmed up, like, maybe 1/10th of the way, it's gone, takes like 4 minutes maybe. Doesnt come back unless it sits, jeez, i'd say minimum 4 hours, probably longer tho.

Maybe i'm not gettin oil up there, I think the lucas stabilizer is a good idea, next oil change is only 300 mi away, i'll addy some then. ( too lazy to drain and add lol)

Thanks for tips, anyone else?

 

[BurningRubber]

Can you isolate where from the top of the engine? You can use a screwdriver or even a peice of hose to your ear and place it around the source of the noise and narrow it down a little.

The car shouldnt be having problems with getting oil circulation in the heads with 109k on it.

Funny as it sounds, try switching to a Motorcraft filter for your next change. It says right on the box (or filter, one of) that if you use a non Motorcraft filter you may experience slight oil starvation at startups. Dont know how true that is, but the tolerences on these motors seem very strict.


Heres a little story though... We used Prolong back in the day in one of our Explorers from a pretty low mileage. Well, it developed a knock sometime not very long after that and its been there the whole life of the engine. Its got probaly close to 140-150k on it now and still runs great, just has a noticable knock at idle... not like a bearing knock though.

Another... I know someone who put some DuraLube in his truck with its first oil change, before the engine was totally broken in... big nono. But I guess they "techs" at the quick change oil places didnt know any better. Now every once and a while it puffs some blue smoke (oil) out of the exhaust at startup, or WOT even.

Id personally not run an additive in the oil. Mobil-1 is some good stuff, as is Motorcraft... No real reason to throw snake oil in there along with it. Ive heard good & bad things about Lucas also...

 

[the98stang]

Don't add any Lucas or engine honey. That will just cover up the noise you're hearing, not fix the problem. If you have good compression and your oil pressure is good, I wouldn't worry about the noise. Just watch the oil level and change it accordingly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Your problem is most likely due to using a cheap oil filter that lacks a drainback valve. Use a Motorcraft FL-820S filter and I bet the problem goes away.

 

[sgarlic]

Beat me to it.

 

[Cantslowdown]

I have 115,xxx on my car and i use wix filter...But i have no sounds at all when start up..

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Wix are good, Motorcraft is not the only one with a drainback valve...

 

[QuickCapri83]

My K&N has the drain back, so, not big deal, however I actually "was" planning on using the motorcraft one for the next change. I've only put about 5k on the car since I got it.......now, I used the pro-long about two months after I got it. To be honest....It never made the noise before I used the prolong, that I can remember....man that sh1t better not be what did it....anyways i'm sure there's no damage, I hardly beat it, and the previous "original" owner was 56 yrs old, with no children, so, it's never even been to the track previous of me.

Thanks for the advice guys, you all seem to hit it on the nail. I'm gonna use the motorcraft, see if there's a difference, and just use the 10w30 royal purple, unless you guys think 5w30 is necessary??

Anyways the car runs/drives great, in fact, on a 2nd gear pull I kept neck and neck up to highway speed with a newer ram air firebird today, I redlined second gear, and then just let him go, I dont race around here, way too dangerous plus I dont really street race, but anyways, it was nice to keep up, he was really really on it hard. It was weird that we both happened to be in 2nd on the on ramp, and then he stomped it and so did I, I could'nt help it LOL, but yeah, right on his ass until we hit the highway, then I threw her in 5th and sat back and chilled out, happy. She's pretty much bone stock, CAI aint doin nothin, and the catback isnt much without having a X/H pipe to go with it....

But which is the better filter, the motorcraft one spoke of, or the K&N?
Also, there's no way i'm switching from royal purple, it works soo freakin good in my VR6, I simply cant resist using it in my other car. I dunno if I ever posted pics of it, here's my other baby, this is the car that owns in corners and highway races......not that I do that tho!....

View attachment 457142
View attachment 457144

Had winter tires on it in the pics with the black Konig's on her. Anyways point is, royal purple works so damn well in this car, I use it in the stang also. Like, I have either a timing chain guide or tenshioner broke, and the chains are loud, but with the purple in her she's nice and quiet, no other oil did that, also, when shifting at the red, she'd smoke a little, again, not with the purple, so, i'm a big fan of purple...gettin tired of typing the word tho.

Again thanks for all advice. I really dont beleive it's anything to worry about, but, hey, all the best advice (quick advice) is up in here so, I like to help and get help when I can.

Anyways, it's pretty cool, got the stang to drag, and the GTI to take corners at teh most sick speeds!!! Bout 8k invested in the GTI, only 900 in the stang...but just a matter of time, only had stang 6 months or so now.
Thanks again for the advice/tips.
Sry for long post....


-Dave


:SNSign:

 

[BurningRubber]

Id switch to 5w30 and a Motorcraft filter in the Stang, see where that gets you.

4.6's like a little thinner oil on startup from what I can tell.

Nice VW, those things can become little hotrods.

 

[QuickCapri83]

I think i'll try that, because i've noticed alot of ppl use 5w30 and the manual calls for it, so, i'll try that, and the filter.

Yeah the dubb I just love, it's a very different experience. But i'm really only a fan of the MK3 VR6's, and the corrado. Not much into the others. But this car is great, and, runs pretty strong, especially above 80mph. Also, this, the 12V VR6, I think is the best sounding engine i've ever heard. Also I dont really like the 24V VR6's in the newer one's, the 12V is just fine for me, and defonantly pulls harder.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

K&N oil filters are crap...