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Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by pissedoff92, Dec 5, 2011.
that was funny as hell! and VERY true
Smart move! You'll be pleased, I'm sure.
Just Google UPR + "THEBESTFRICKENSUSPENSIONEVERBECAUSEITISMADEINAMERICAITCARRIESALIFETIMEGUARANTEEANDITHASWONDOZENSUPONDOZENSOFCHAMPIONSHIPSBECAUSEUPRRULES"
"Added stress to the undercarraige, and passenger butts"????? hmmmm.
He must be referring to the little known torque box reinforcement kit from JBW. Even before there was somebody offering a upper torque box reinforcement kit (battle boxes,or UPR's bolt in plates), there was this company offering this solution:
Instructions: 1. Remove rear bench seat, and cut out area of lower bench located directly above upper torque box.2. Set seat aside.3. Remove any undercoating, and paint from floor area in vicinity of upper torque box.4. Choose two "passengers," and cut out corresponding right or left pant pocket to include undergarments, ultimately exposing bare ass cheek (right for driver side passenger, left for passenger side).5. Re-install rear seat bench modified to expose stripped upper torque box sheetmetal.6.Mix two part butt adhesive and allow 5 minutes to cure,..apply liberal amount to exposed ass cheek and immediately have passengers get in, and stick each respective butt cheek to the newly stripped upper torque box.7. Wait at least 30 minutes before testing/racing. Evidently the thought process was that the added weight directly over the axle, coupled w/ the potential added integrity of two sets of ass muscles glued directly to the upper torque box sheetmetal would solve the structural integrity isses while increasing traction w/ out welding.Problem was,...you had these two guys with their asses glued to your floor.
My torque box isnt even knocking. I know many people have had this problem, but I must have gotten lucky with mine because mine were cheap knockoffs made by Summit but they work great. The Ford C springs seemed to affect my ride quality more negatively than the RCA's. My point was that anytime you go changing things on your car you throw other things out of whack and usually end up having to change those too. This is performance modding.
And yes, I could care less about this forum. I seen a hundred of em and everyone thinks they know everything. I am just contributing my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Maybe yours was different. Maybe you bought a crappy part. Maybe your suspension was crap when you did your RCA's. I dunno, and neither do you obviously.
UCA's = Upper Control Arms.
LCA's = Lower control arms.
Where is there room left for RCA's?
Could it be:
1.Reinforced Control Arms?
2.Rebuilt Control Arms?
3.Rusty Control Arms?
4.Retarded Control Arms?
or Chinee pronunciation for Rower Controw Ahhms?
And Jlope014,......If you are responding to MFE92,.......... then you might wanna ck his profile, maybe even watch the video he's linked, in his past posts...... I think he does know a little about what he's talking about. You could only hope he's forgotten more than you know about it.
Rear Control Arms?
OHHH,......he mean't those RCA's,.........
And I had such a good rant going
So you come here asking for advice, and in your third post slam the board? Glad you could care less as I doubt anyone is going to offer you help in the future.
He didn't ask for advice, he offered it.
Anytime you stiffen your suspension, you are causing more stress to your undercarriage and to your passengers butts.
You pay the price to play the game. You can get torque box covers to protect it if you feel better about it. If you wan't longevity, consider a Toyota Camry or a Honda Civic
It was somewhat generic, and lacked any real "technical" merit, so he got a little bit ch slap from MFE92.
That's why he got all pis sy.
Been away a few days doing other things..come back to read this thread...LOL. Dude I understand what damage beating your car at the track etc, modifying it can cause. The point was that the control arms that were the topic of discussion were considered the best thing since sliced bread for a Fox body for traction back in the day (You know, back when your mom was combing your hair for church) and if WE Fox body owners that were not only driving but racing back then knew what the design would cause in the line of torque box damage, WE WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT THEM.
I hear them calling your name over at the V-Tech forum.
No... this is called a "hack" and comes from tossing parts into the mix with no consideration for how they might work together. It's also how we ended up with things like fruit cake.
Whether you come or go is up to you. This... is a discussion forum. There are other forums where the user base is made up mostly of 15 year old boys who's 'experience' is based on some really nice magazine ads. Expect that you're going to hear about it when you post poor info here. Hell, I've even posted a thing or two that I've had to go back and think about after. So try this: If you 'think' you know, then ask a question. If you 'know' then state it as best you can and be prepared to have a conversation. If you're not interested in having that conversation but instead just want everyone to marvel at your vast knowledge, then you're in the wrong place. Even the experts here have conversations... it's part of how they came to be experts. In other words: Consider the company you're in before you toss out what you learned in 11th grade auto-shop and want to do a blue-faced scream about how it's automobile gospel.
Let me know when you guys get a Fox, street/strip suspension PACKAGE together. One that has been tuned and tested (and tweaked) to operate as a kit. One that lists its benefits and limitations for a specific application. I for one, am NOT a suspension genius nor do I own a race team that will tune it for me. I definitely prefer something that I can install in the drieway and maybe take down the road to get it aligned. Pieces and parts (to me) don't make a suspension regardless of how many times Buddy Rawls Racing (or whomever) made it down the track with a set of lowers.
Hell if I knew all of that, I would quit my job and do THAT for a living. That's what I look for in R&D from a company I purchase suspension though. Well... that and the ability to explain to someone with at least some sort of mechanical background.
Noooo not this thread again.
The correct phrase is "I couldn't care less". Saying that you could care less indicates that you do care for the forum and that it is possible for you to care less about the forum. We do appreciate that you do care about the forum and hope that you don't care less in the future.
what are you looking for in the suspension? make it handle better or make the car go up on the bumper?
Ultimately, what I'm looking for is either a 3-link for 4-link setup that has the best possible street performance that someone can reasonably afford and install in their driveway (minus maybe a trip to get it all aligned correctly).
Now I know that there are companies like Team-Z, MM, and Steeda, that have these kinds of "kits in the box" setups. They're kind of spendy but I attribute that to the time and man-power that they took to tune and adjust these kits to ensure that they work together.
The point I'm trying to make is that a great suspension system requires more than just stuffing in this or that, set of control arms and expecting the vehicle to perform really well.
I could care less about people who couldn't care less.
We separate our suspension packages into front & rear packages. For a street-strip Fox, we recommend our Pro Series front suspension and Pro Street rear suspension. It hooks exceptionally well, but with poly bushings on one end of every control arm, NVH is kept to a reasonable level.
Here is the front end package:
And here is the rear end package:
Actually, you know what? I really appreciate your input because for some reason, your post made me look at this situation differently. As I was listing this package above, it occurred to me that I need to list the dampeners, cc-plates, and housing bushings in addition to the packages above, so in a sense, they aren't really like one complete package. I'm not saying that our a la cart approach to suspension sales is not good, but I do acknowledge that some people prefer to order one package, like one complete Pro Street or Pro Series package. I just sent an email to my boss to see if he wants to put something together.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Regarding R&D, we don't do any super trick FEA or 3D modeling or whatever. What we do is fabricate our parts, put them on our own vehicles, beat them to death, and if they survive that torture test then we offer them to the public with a Lifetime Guarantee. It's not as fancy as some manufacturers' design processes, but it's effective!
For the average speed freak/driveway mechanic, yeah... a complete package setup that has been tested to be tried and true for straight track, road course, and street/strip with X HP, or whatever the circumstance, is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I mean... I get it about straight track... Build it tough and allow for weight transfer. The others are bit more complicated and I'll admit that the last time I used a slide ruler, angle dial, or compass, was in geometry class. What's more is most lack knowing what those settings should be regardless if they know how to use the tools.
As for the R&D well... A lot of that can be gotten from the race teams that use your parts in their apps and tweak and tune in the process of getting it right.
Again, thanks for your input. I'm going to meet with my Manager Jeremy and the owner Mark, most likely this week, so we can discuss the packages.
Fwiw, the R&D doesn't seem to be an insurmountable task. My '06 GT is the demo vehicle for our S197 Pro-Street Handling Package, our 2010 GT is the demo vehicle for our S197 Pro-Street Drag Package. Jeremy's 7-second '93 GT is the demo vehicle for our Fox Pro-Series Drag Package. We should probably R&D a Fox Handling package as well, and I know where there's a nice clean '93 Cobra for sale.
The gears are turning.
Just bought all of my rear suspension stuff from these guys http://www.wolferacecraft.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=10. Why? Well on my buddy car this stuff works, and works well, so based on that experience, that is what I am going with. Plus it did not hurt that when I placed the order today, I found out that everything was 20% off!
Edit: Let it be known that I do not care who's stuff you put on your car, if the geometry is not right it is not going to work, I don't care how much you paid for it............