Crate '69 Camaro soon Crate '67 Mustang FB?!
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Pakrat
Founding Member
Cool yes, but seems like madness to me. What if you don't have an old car? How do you vin it? How do you stop the unscroupulous from pulling fast ones? If you do have to register as new then I assume that you must abide by all current car standards? The whole reason Carroll is using original cars for his Elensteins to begin with?
For 12K + you can usually still find a decent and solid original car, I have to believe that the cost to finish this new body would easily cover the cost of refreshing an original in the same price point, so I don't see the purpose this serves quite yet. The reason it worked in the Hot Rod community is because all the old cars from 30's were being modded up and the plea to keep some history in tact was heard. Although, I just read in the new MM that the Hot Rod community has their sights now set on our beloved cars form the 60's and 70's since they feel they have been there and done that to death on the generation cars they usually mod, so maybe this is the first indication that those biys are here to stay and play in our backyard now? I mean, they usually do not care at all about exceeding the cars value when creating it, they just want it clean and fast.
For 12K + you can usually still find a decent and solid original car, I have to believe that the cost to finish this new body would easily cover the cost of refreshing an original in the same price point, so I don't see the purpose this serves quite yet. The reason it worked in the Hot Rod community is because all the old cars from 30's were being modded up and the plea to keep some history in tact was heard. Although, I just read in the new MM that the Hot Rod community has their sights now set on our beloved cars form the 60's and 70's since they feel they have been there and done that to death on the generation cars they usually mod, so maybe this is the first indication that those biys are here to stay and play in our backyard now? I mean, they usually do not care at all about exceeding the cars value when creating it, they just want it clean and fast.
Hack
15 Year Member
I could see this appealing to the people out there building Eleanors. If it's a high quality starting point, it could be quicker for them to do builds. There are rich people out there for whom it's nothing to drop $100k or more on a vehicle - this is perfect for them. I also wonder about the VIN issues. I suppose they'll find a way.
I think it's great, because it means there will be more classics on the streets.
I think it's great, because it means there will be more classics on the streets.
The way I’m kind of seeing it is just like you said, preserving history. Too many cars are being bought by Hollywood (I almost cried when destroyed that '68 fastback in Fox's Fastlane), Carroll's little project groups and many other people who just chop them to hell. This will give many people (myself included) the opportunity to do what we really want to do with the style of car and save an original. I would just love to put in a MII front suspension, Ford 5.0 Cammer and a 9" in the rear with Richmond 6 speed but i don't want to molest an original car. Just my opinion though.
Dynacorn is simply producing the hardware (or at least that’s what I read into the article), you can buy the body from them, or you could get a turnkey from Classic Automotive Restoration (who is said to be partnered with Dynacorn on the project). C.A.R. had said in the article that they are going to try to license with GM, Ford, etc. so they can still a Camaro and Camaro, etc. and they want to issue their own VINs to help easy registration....course that wont help anyone who just buys the body.
Dynacorn is simply producing the hardware (or at least that’s what I read into the article), you can buy the body from them, or you could get a turnkey from Classic Automotive Restoration (who is said to be partnered with Dynacorn on the project). C.A.R. had said in the article that they are going to try to license with GM, Ford, etc. so they can still a Camaro and Camaro, etc. and they want to issue their own VINs to help easy registration....course that wont help anyone who just buys the body.
Pakrat said:Cool yes, but seems like madness to me. What if you don't have an old car? How do you vin it? How do you stop the unscroupulous from pulling fast ones? If you do have to register as new then I assume that you must abide by all current car standards? The whole reason Carroll is using original cars for his Elensteins to begin with?
For 12K + you can usually still find a decent and solid original car, I have to believe that the cost to finish this new body would easily cover the cost of refreshing an original in the same price point, so I don't see the purpose this serves quite yet. The reason it worked in the Hot Rod community is because all the old cars from 30's were being modded up and the plea to keep some history in tact was heard. Although, I just read in the new MM that the Hot Rod community has their sights now set on our beloved cars form the 60's and 70's since they feel they have been there and done that to death on the generation cars they usually mod, so maybe this is the first indication that those biys are here to stay and play in our backyard now? I mean, they usually do not care at all about exceeding the cars value when creating it, they just want it clean and fast.
the article addresses this. it says the company is going to try to get a license to be a manufacturer so they can give each car a vin number.
washMO66
Founding Member
Am I the only one who notice that girl's massive nipples on the US Body site holding the fiberglass door next to the Mustang? Oops, sorry wrong forum.............
The article also said that they plan to sell complete new 1969 Camaros Convertables for about 40,000.00.
Depending on Spec, and registration issues that might not be a bad deal, especially since it is possible that it could be financed at new car intrest rates.
I bet you can't restore a 1969 Camaro to as new condition for 40 grand.
The morality and legality of "Rebodying" a vehicle damaged by rust or crash damage will always be in debate, but a 12,000.00 body isn't that far out in left field if you contemplate any major professional rust repair.
Depending on Spec, and registration issues that might not be a bad deal, especially since it is possible that it could be financed at new car intrest rates.
I bet you can't restore a 1969 Camaro to as new condition for 40 grand.
The morality and legality of "Rebodying" a vehicle damaged by rust or crash damage will always be in debate, but a 12,000.00 body isn't that far out in left field if you contemplate any major professional rust repair.
ratio411
Founding Member
I just got my 2005 Classic Industies catalog...
They have the Camaro for sale in it.
It is the complete unibody of a 69 vert.
Every part of the car that is welded as a unit, that everything else bolts to, is there as one piece.
If it is a part that attaches with bolts to the unibody, it is NOT included. ie: fenders, doors, glass, suspension, subframes, etc...
It is in prime and actually looks very, very nice.
The catch:
It lists for $9,999.95.
I don't see a 3,000 dollar part.
Dave
They have the Camaro for sale in it.
It is the complete unibody of a 69 vert.
Every part of the car that is welded as a unit, that everything else bolts to, is there as one piece.
If it is a part that attaches with bolts to the unibody, it is NOT included. ie: fenders, doors, glass, suspension, subframes, etc...
It is in prime and actually looks very, very nice.
The catch:
It lists for $9,999.95.
I don't see a 3,000 dollar part.
Dave
The article was mentioning that they will be available with several options. the ~12000.00 price was said to be with doors and a deck lid but no front end sheet metal. The one pictured on the cover appears to be complete including subframe and all the front sheet metal. I'm sure that would be more than 12,000.00. They said that due to the cost of the roof stamping the coupe bodies would cost more than the convertables. They also said that some of the parts won't be sold individually.
LOL @ $1200! Man, in my dreams.
They will apply for mfg. status with their own VINs in 2005, so you may be able to build one from scratch.
With the price of bodywork these days, sometimes you can come out dollars ahead with a 12k body. Depends on the amount of work to be done. Realistically, with a real rust bucket, you are replacing everything anyway, so I don't get all the fuss over re-bodies.
Speaking of originality and re-bodies, Ole Shel himself has somebody else's heart in his chest. Can he be called the "Original Shel?" Or is he a clone? LOL!!
They will apply for mfg. status with their own VINs in 2005, so you may be able to build one from scratch.
With the price of bodywork these days, sometimes you can come out dollars ahead with a 12k body. Depends on the amount of work to be done. Realistically, with a real rust bucket, you are replacing everything anyway, so I don't get all the fuss over re-bodies.
Speaking of originality and re-bodies, Ole Shel himself has somebody else's heart in his chest. Can he be called the "Original Shel?" Or is he a clone? LOL!!
I can't wait! I've decided I'm just going to keep my '68 Stock and slowly restore it (maybe I'll try and get it concours now).
I'm going to invest in one of the '67 repro bodies and just have as much fun with it as possible. The money I will save in body straightening, panel repair, rust repair and just general longevity and body strength will almost pay for the body. And while I wait for it to actually hit the market I’ll just start putting together all the other things I’ll need. Lets see, I’ll need; engine, driver train, interior
I'm going to invest in one of the '67 repro bodies and just have as much fun with it as possible. The money I will save in body straightening, panel repair, rust repair and just general longevity and body strength will almost pay for the body. And while I wait for it to actually hit the market I’ll just start putting together all the other things I’ll need. Lets see, I’ll need; engine, driver train, interior
British Motor Heritage has been doing this for many years with MGB's, Triumph TR-6's, MG Midgets, and Mini's using the original tooling to produce complete shells. It's a very cost effective way to restore a car and the new shells are better than the originals in many ways (like rustproofing). Buy a new shell, paint it, move the mechanicals. No rust repair, no body work, no tedious bodywork.
However, I take issue with transfering VIN's. The VIN carries the car's history and identity. Swapping the VIN sections from a K-code to a repop shell does not make a repop shell a K-code car and representing it as such is unethical at least and criminal at most. However, if it's represented as a rebody, that would be great way to get a rustfree fastback or vert back on the road.
However, I take issue with transfering VIN's. The VIN carries the car's history and identity. Swapping the VIN sections from a K-code to a repop shell does not make a repop shell a K-code car and representing it as such is unethical at least and criminal at most. However, if it's represented as a rebody, that would be great way to get a rustfree fastback or vert back on the road.
1320stang
Founding Member
I agree on the rebody thing. Maybe it could get a vin that includes an R1 at the end. If you total it and do it again, the new vin would read R2 and so forth.
Pakrat
Founding Member
I think an ethical question like that is always going to be one of controversey. I agree that a vin is a vin and car specific particularly where collectability comes into play, but at this point in time, where do you draw a line? I mean what makes a K code a K code really? Is it the body or the mechanicals? Would you rather own, or nmore correctly is it better to have an original body K code that has many of the engine parts stripped and has seen god knows hom many door and fender and qtr replacements by various owners and only sports it's original Vin on the dash because everything else has been replaced over 40 years, or to have a complete but shot and rot car that you can transfer all to a new strong body and have like new again? At what point does it cease to be original? Lets say the body is equal to 50% of the total car and all it's parts, so the original has been 75% replaced and the new body is only 50% replaced, does the original still have that special appeal over the other? I don't think you pidgeon hole this into any one yes or no, I think it's a case by case issue. If doors and fenders and what not are OK then how can the chunk that holds it all together not be? With humans we say that if the mind and soul ar intact then you are who you are regardless of hom many non original parts you have, but how do you convert that to cars? What is the soul and brain and does it count the same.
I personally think I am one of the type of folks who will suffer from something like this the most. Because all my metal is original and un-rusted, my cars body used to stand for something special in the crowd because of that and maybe have a little extra worth even, but now when an equal money choice comes down to solid and original vs. brand spankin new, I'm not so sure my cars condition becomes any more attractive then one with mostly new parts and pans in comparison. In the hot rod community it's different. You do not see people buying new bodies and making stock correct cars out of them, they are all restomodded and so a restomod, even from original falls into a different class anyway and has a different set of values and worth that go with that, even to the insurance companies. I do not think this will be the case here, I am sure not every new Camaro and Mustang body will become a restomod hotrod, some may get completed as a totally stock car and that is where the situation really gets sticky and the ethical part comes into play the most.
I personally think I am one of the type of folks who will suffer from something like this the most. Because all my metal is original and un-rusted, my cars body used to stand for something special in the crowd because of that and maybe have a little extra worth even, but now when an equal money choice comes down to solid and original vs. brand spankin new, I'm not so sure my cars condition becomes any more attractive then one with mostly new parts and pans in comparison. In the hot rod community it's different. You do not see people buying new bodies and making stock correct cars out of them, they are all restomodded and so a restomod, even from original falls into a different class anyway and has a different set of values and worth that go with that, even to the insurance companies. I do not think this will be the case here, I am sure not every new Camaro and Mustang body will become a restomod hotrod, some may get completed as a totally stock car and that is where the situation really gets sticky and the ethical part comes into play the most.
I bet very, very few restorations to stock will be based on an aftermarket body. Not sure what I base that on. Maybe just a hunch.
Pakrat
Founding Member
Well if I was a sneaky bastard and I could get my hands on a badly rusted and raced out Shelby that was complete and sitting in a field written off as a basket case and selling for relatively short cash considering, it would seem to me a perfect opportunity to make your self a nice 50k profit or so as opposed to building a hotrod out of it. We have a lot of shady stuff in this hobby as it is and a lot of fast ones have been pulled on many, so with an open door like this, I have a hard time believing that conciences will suddenly start multiplying by the dozens. That's what my hunches say anyway.
We have a lot of shady stuff in this hobby as it is and a lot of fast ones have been pulled on many, so with an open door like this, I have a hard time believing that conciences will suddenly start multiplying by the dozens. That's what my hunches say anyway.
Pakrat said:Well if I was a sneaky bastard and I could get my hands on a badly rusted and raced out Shelby that was complete and sitting in a field written off as a basket case and selling for relatively short cash considering, it would seem to me a perfect opportunity to make your self a nice 50k profit or so as opposed to building a hotrod out of it.
You're a glass is half empty kind of guy aren't ya?
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