Crate Engine Question

CarFreakGT

Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
May 26, 2003
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Louisville, KY
Hello, all. I've searched for an answer to this with no luck. Hoping for some help. I'm considering a crate engine for my 91 GT. While I have found several that have the numbers I'm looking for (325+ HP, 350+ TQ), everything is carbureted. That's not a deal-breaker for me, but would like to keep FI. Any options without breaking the bank with aftermarket FI systems? Hoping to stay in $5K range. TIA.
 
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No, I did not. I just started looking over the past week. Though I did chat with a Summit rep, and mentioned that I would like to stay with EFI. He did not offer any other alternatives. Any particular company that may be good to speak with?
 
You could go with a Fast EFI system...or you can bolt the efi stuff on from the crate motor and sell the carb stuff. You would need injectors, upper and lower intake, throttle body, maf, fuel pump, headers, exhaust, and a tune to reach those numbers.

The easiest cheapest way ( sadly to say ) would probably be the motor you mentioned and the fast efi system. All you'd need is a fuel pump, headers, and exhaust...if the motor comes dressed with water pump, front timing cover, and distributor.

If you want to go the hard way....you'll need to know the cam specs and what gear is on the distributor. A lot of carbed motors use different cams and the gear on the bottom of the distributor is different.

Call some local machine shops in your area... I know the machine shop by here always has 302s laying around that they'll put together inexpensively. That way you'll know everything that was in it.
 
Stay away from White performance in Tennessee. A close friend bought a small block Chevy from them recently, the motor bent a valve, shattered the valve keepers in less than 2 k miles. They wanted to charge him $1000.00 for a motor that had a full 2 year warranty. Absolute worst customer service I've ever encountered on something that should have been an easy motor swap. All you guys thinking about these guys, please don't! Best advice, do your homework, pick a reputable engine builder near you, use high quality parts, nothing from China, or Mexico. And read reviews or ask others how theirs held up. Short of that the best advice is have machine shop do maching, build it your self.


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You could go with a Fast EFI system...or you can bolt the efi stuff on from the crate motor and sell the carb stuff. You would need injectors, upper and lower intake, throttle body, maf, fuel pump, headers, exhaust, and a tune to reach those numbers.

If you want to go the hard way....you'll need to know the cam specs and what gear is on the distributor. A lot of carbed motors use different cams and the gear on the bottom of the distributor.

Okay, dumb question: I have upper and lower intake, MAF, TB, and fuel pump. Would it be as simple as a new cam and distributor on the crate engine? Am I oversimplifying?
 
Yes...could be simpler if the cam is a roller cam already. You may not have to change the cam. If its got the h.o. firing order and has roller lifters you'll be fine with it. Your stock distributor will work, too.

As you find info post it here. We can help you make a good decision.
 
There are plenty of solutions that use the stock EFI computer and wiring with a different MAF, fuel injectors and fuel pump. For the power output you specified, you will need a combination the above items, the stock parts do not have sufficient capacity.

Use a Pro-M MAF with your injectors, other products may work, but Pro-M is one of the best. See www.promracing.com. The Pro-M will get you running OK , but you may want more power or some engine characteristic changed. That's where the Custom Dyno tune & chip or a DIY tuner come into play.

Fuel injector sizing & injector photos

Revised 26-Dec-2014 to add statement about figures are for flywheel HP and not rear wheel HP

Injector HP ratings: this flywheel HP, not rear wheel HP.
Divide flow rating by.5 and multiply the result by the number of injectors. This uses a 100% duty cycle. These ratings are for naturally aspirated engines at the flywheel.

Example:
19/.5 = 38, 38 x 8 = 304 HP
24/.5 = 48, 48 x 8 = 384 HP
30/.5 = 60, 60 x 8 = 480 HP
36/.5 = 72, 72 x 8 = 576 HP
42/.5 = 84, 84 x 8 = 672 HP

The preferred duty cycle is about 85% maximum, so for a safety factor multiply the final figure times .85.

19/.5 = 38, 38 x 8 = 304 HP x .85 = 258 HP
24/.5 = 48, 48 x 8 = 384 HP x .85 = 326 HP
30/.5 = 60, 60 x 8 = 480 HP x .85 = 408 HP
36/.5 = 72, 72 x 8 = 576 HP x .85 = 490 HP
42/.5 = 84, 84 x 8 = 672 HP x .85 = 571 HP

Remember that the above ratings are at 39 PSI. Increasing the pressure will effectively increase the flow rating. Example: a 19 lb injector will flow 24 lbs at 63 PSI, and a 24 lb injector will flow 30 lbs at 63 PSI.

See http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcpchg.htm to get the calculators used in these examples.


Here's the duty cycle explanation. Duty cycle is how much of the time the intake is open the injectors are turned on. The 85% figure means that for 85% of the time the intake valve is open, the injectors are spraying. The idea is that you want some percentage of the duty cycle left over so that you have some room to grow the process.

If you are at 100% and you need more fuel, all you can do is turn up the fuel pressure. That means the whole fuel curve from idle to WOT is affected. Maybe you are already too rich at idle, and turning up the fuel pressure makes it worse. If you had some injector duty cycle left to play with, a custom tune could use that where it is needed. That would not over richen the whole range from idle to WOT.

If you did turn up the fuel pressure, you might be able to change the injector duty cycle to get the air/fuel mixture ratio you want since the injectors will have extra fuel delivery capability.

With larger than stock injectors or higher that stock fuel pressure, you will need an aftermarket MAF that matches the injector size. The MAF “lies” to the computer to get a fuel delivery schedule that meets the engine’s needs and isn’t too rich or too lean. The best strategy is an aftermarket MAF and a custom tune to insure the best air/fuel ratio over all the RPM range.

Don't forget to increase the fuel pump size when you increase injector size or significantly increase the fuel pressure



Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg




Copied from the FORD RACING PERFORMANCE PARTS catalog:

PROPERLY SIZING FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS


Fuel Pumps
The following information is presented assuming the above information has been taken into consideration regarding BSFC, fuel pressure and specific gravity of the fuel being used. Most fuel pumps for electronic fuel injection are rated for flow at 12 volts @ 40 PSI. Most vehicle charging systems operate anywhere from 13.2v to 14.4v. The more voltage you feed a pump, the faster it spins which, obviously, will put out more fuel. Rating a fuel pump at 12 volts then, should offer a fairly conservative fuel flow rating allowing you to safely determine the pump’s ability to supply an adequate amount of fuel for a particular application.

As previously mentioned, engines actually require a certain WEIGHT of fuel, NOT a certain VOLUME of fuel per horsepower. This can offer a bit of confusion since most fuel pumps are rated by volume, and not by weight. To determine the proper fuel pump required, a few mathematical conversions will need to be performed using the following information. There are 3.785 liters in 1 US Gallon. 1 gallon of gasoline (.72 specific gravity @ 65° F) weighs 6.009 LBS.

To be certain that the fuel pump is not run to its very limit, which could potentially be dangerous to the engine, multiply the final output of the fuel pump by 0.9 to determine the capacity of the fuel pump at 90% output. This should offer plenty of ‘cushion’ as to the overall “horsepower capacity” of the fuel pump.

To determine the overall capacity of a fuel pump rated in liters, use the additional following conversions:
(Liters per Hour) / 3.785 = Gallons
Multiply by 6.009 = LBS/HR
Multiply by 0.9 = Capacity at 90%
Divide by BSFC = Horsepower Capacity
So for a 110 LPH fuel pump:
110 / 3.785 = 29.06 Gallons
29.06 x 6.009 = 174.62 LBS/HR
174.62 x 0.9 = 157 LBS/HR @ 90% Capacity
157 / 0.5 = 314 HP safe naturally aspirated “Horsepower Capacity”

Safe “Horsepower Capacity” @ 40 PSI with 12 Volts
60 Liter Pump = 95 LB/HR X .9 = 86 LB/HR, Safe for 170 naturally aspirated Horsepower
88 Liter Pump = 140 LB/HR X .9 = 126 LB/HR, Safe for 250 naturally aspirated Horsepower
110 Liter Pump = 175 LB/HR X .9 = 157 LB/HR, Safe for 315 naturally aspirated Horsepower
155 Liter Pump = 246 LB/HR X .9 = 221 LB/HR, Safe for 440 naturally aspirated Horsepower
190 Liter Pump = 302 LB/HR X .9 = 271 LB/HR, Safe for 540 naturally aspirated Horsepower
255 Liter Pump = 405 LB/HR X .9 = 364 LB/HR, Safe for 700 naturally aspirated Horsepower

Note: For forced induction engines, the above power levels will be reduced because as the pressure required by the pump increases, the flow decreases. In order to do proper fuel pump sizing, a fuel pump map is required, which shows flow rate versus delivery pressure.

That is, a 255 liter per hour pump at 40 PSI may only supply 200 liters per hour at 58 PSI (40 PSI plus 18 lbs of boost). Additionally, if you use a fuel line that is not large enough, this can result in decreased fuel volume due to the pressure drop across the fuel feed line: 255 LPH at the pump may only result in 225 LPH at the fuel rail.


My Comments:

A lot of people oversize the fuel pump by buying a 255LPH pump thinking that the fuel pump regulator will just pass the excess gas back to the tank. It does, but… Did you ever consider that circulating the fuel around as a 255 LPH pump does will cause the gas to pickup engine heat? What happens to hot gasoline? It boils off or pressurizes the fuel tank! With most of the 5.0 Mustangs having the carbon canister removed or disabled, the car stinks like gas, and the gas mileage drops since the hot fuel evaporates away into the air.



Tuning the engine once you have the engine build completed and installed
A Custom Dyno tune and chip burned from the dyno results is the easy way to get the max power after you are done with your modifications. Plan to spend $350-$550 for the chip and tune.

There are several DIY tuners that you can use to program the stock computer for best results if you plan a staged modification build or just have the urge to lean something new and useful.
Moates Quarterhorse ( http://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords-p-199.html ) ,
Anderson PMS ( http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/efi-systems-series-4-pms-fits-89-93-5-0l-mustang/ )
Tweecer ) http://www.tweecer.com/ )
are some of the more common add on tuners.




See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif
 
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Make sure you builder knows you are EFI and your engine has a roller cam.
What you gonna do with this car, daily driver with the occasional import embarrassment or dragstrip terror?
Lets see what it looks like,
 
Yes...could be simpler if the cam is a roller cam already. You may not have to change the cam. If its got the h.o. firing order and has roller lifters you'll be fine with it. Your stock distributor will work, too.

As you find info post it here. We can help you make a good decision.

Here is one I considered. It does have the same firing order.

https://m.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3060ct/overview/
 
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Is your current motor dead?
I'm assuming it's already a 5.0 car right? Why not refresh the current engine,throw a blower on it to reach your power level and get it tuned?

From the pic,it's a gorgeous car, good luck with what ever you choose for it :)