Crown Vic Rear Discs

[ultrastang]

I was messing around, a while back, with some Crown Vic rear disc brake parts I've had sitting around.

These were just some (dirty) wrecking yard take-off brake parts I had gotten from a '98 Crown Vic cop car and mocked up on a small bearing housing axle tube. (the axle tube and stub axle were taken from a '59 Fairlane 9-inch rear with a broken rear end housing to make the mockup stand with).

Wrecking yard take-off parts:
1. http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7627/crownvictoriareardiscbrba9.jpg

2. Rear end housing end flange:
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/4071/crownvictoriareardiscbrlu8.jpg

3. Bottom of end flange trimmed off:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7532/crownvictoriareardiscbrbq1.jpg

4. Axle (stub) with machined bearing spacer installed:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4834/crownvictoriareardiscbraf6.jpg

5. Axle, spacer, caliper anchor plate/splash shield installed on axle tube:
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/920/crownvictoriareardiscbrjv8.jpg

6. Machined rotor centering ring installed:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7151/crownvictoriareardiscbrsq0.jpg

7. ...Without a rotor centering ring, you would have a gap around the center hole of the rotor like this:
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/1487/crownvictoriareardiscbrcw7.jpg

8. ...With the centering ring, the gap is taken up to keep the rotor centered, and the pads tracking in the same plane on the disc's friction surfaces everytime:
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/6866/crownvictoriareardiscbrvi9.jpg

9. Caliper installed:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/255/crownvictoriareardiscbrhh2.jpg

9a. http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6105/crownvictoriareardiscbrdj3.jpg

9b. http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4604/crownvictoriareardiscbrio0.jpg

And finally, here's a solution I came up with to rigidly attach the flexible caliper hose to the axle housing. This mod not seen on any other Crown Vic conversion:
10. http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9946/crownvictoriareardiscbres8.jpg

 

[Tubo(2-bo)]

I guess the bracket, mounted by the U-bolt came from a donor. Care to say which or how?

Of the different, rear disc applications, Mk VII-Cr.Vic-Sn95, you offer, which is the better companion to a Granada front disc. If they're more or less equal, which is the lightest, or has aluminum calipers?

 

[ratio411]

Very nice!

 

[rbohm]

ultrastang, an interesting idea just popped into my head. i was thinking of using the 4 piston front calipers from a 65-67 mustang on the rear, and i was resigned to using a pinion mounted e-brake. but since you seem to like a challenge, do you think it would be possible to modify the crown vic rear brake system to work with the older 4 piston calipers?

 

[ultrastang]

I guess the bracket, mounted by the U-bolt came from a donor. Care to say which or how?

Of the different, rear disc applications, Mk VII-Cr.Vic-Sn95, you offer, which is the better companion to a Granada front disc. If they're more or less equal, which is the lightest, or has aluminum calipers?

At least currently, I don't offer the components for sale to install the Crown Vic rear discs onto a small bearing Ford 8- or 9-inch rear ends. This is a set of C-V parts I've had sitting around that I finally got around to experimenting with. If there was enough interest, then I might consider making the needed machined parts for the swap.

The hose is the stock Crown Vic caliper hose. I just figured out the mods to the hose bracket to mount it to the 360-degree heavy-duty muffler clamp I used to attach it to the housing with. --I used this same train of thought and basic means of mounting when I was working on the SN95 rear discs. (hose mount on SN95 Cobra setup: http://www.ultrastang.com/images/2006/cobraantimoanbracket0117at.jpg ).

The Cobra rears would probably be too large to use with the stock Granada front brakes. The front Granada rotors are 11¼" and the Cobra rear rotors are 11.65" in diameter.

Except for the Mk VII rotors (and Cobra), the SN95 V6/GT and the Crown Vic rotors are a solid design. The SN95 V6/GT rotors are 10½" in diameter and the Crown Vic rotors are 11¼".

The rear calipers of the Mk VII, SN95 V6/GT, Cobra, and Crown Vic are all cast iron construction. Only the front calipers of the SN95 V6/GTs and Cobras are aluminum (PBR units).

I haven't weighed the SN95 or Crown Vic components to know their weight. I do know that the Mk VII setup is 22 lbs per side, but suspect the others are within close proximity to that weight as well.

 

[ultrastang]

ultrastang, an interesting idea just popped into my head. i was thinking of using the 4 piston front calipers from a 65-67 mustang on the rear, and i was resigned to using a pinion mounted e-brake. but since you seem to like a challenge, do you think it would be possible to modify the crown vic rear brake system to work with the older 4 piston calipers?

Moving the front single piston K/H calipers and front brake rotors ('68-'70) to the rear was a common trick used back in the days of the Trans Am racing Mustangs.

If you are asking if the 4-piston K/H calipers could be adapted to the C-V anchor brackets, then no, I don't think that would be feasible. You would pretty much have to fabricate a bracket to do that, or use the old factory front mounting brackets on the rear to adapt them.

 

[Tubo(2-bo)]

On the Cr. Vic swap, lets see if I remember this correctly.
There isnt really much more than using the approriate spacer ring, and trimming the axle housing stub? Right? Then the Cr.Vic components can just be bolted on...

I dident realize the Cr.Vic & Granada rotors were almost the same size. Might make the Sn95 V-6 discs a better fit , as far as proportioning.

 

[ultrastang]

On the Cr. Vic swap, lets see if I remember this correctly.
There isnt really much more than using the approriate spacer ring, and trimming the axle housing stub? Right? Then the Cr.Vic components can just be bolted on...

I dident realize the Cr.Vic & Granada rotors were almost the same size. Might make the Sn95 V-6 discs a better fit , as far as proportioning.

You would need the appropriate bearing spacers (there are two different thicknesses required, depending on the year model of C-V brake parts you have), and you would need the rotor centering rings. There's also a matter of correct wheel studs and hose fittings.

The Mk VII and Crown Vic rotors are the same diameter as the Granada front rotors. I've used the Mk VII rear brakes with Granada brakes on the front with no problems. The Crown Vic would probably be ok too if the rears are regulated down with a manually adjustable proportioning valve to balance out the bias. I don't know if there would be enough adjustment to regulate the much larger Cobra 11.65" rear rotors with Granada front brakes (??).

I'm not sure who's drawing you've posted. If it's yours, then I wouldn't worry about it, but if it's the property of someone else, they probably wouldn't appriciate it being posted without prior permission. --you know, copyright laws and all that.

 

[ratio411]

Very helpful illustrations.
Thanks!

 

[Tubo(2-bo)]

I did not generate the illustrations, they were passed to me some time in 04/05. If I knew or remembered who sent them to me, I'd be happy to credit them to him.
Right or wrong, I can only treat them as public domain at this time.

 

[ratio411]

I don't see any copyright info on them.

The fact that they are on the web being passed around, makes them public domain, like it or not. Once on the web, always on the web. Kinda like the genie out of the bottle... no putting it back.

 

[bnickel]

for anyone that is interested, there is a vented rotor available for the CV rear discs. one of the main reason i have always leaned toward this design, that and the internal drum style parking brake. for a car that will never tow anything the regular integrated style parking brake will work just fine, but if you ever want to pull a boat or whatever then the drum style parking brake makes more sense because it has more holding capacity. i plan on using the crown vic style brakes on the 69 cougar project since it will be getting a hitch so we can pull my wife's paddle boat that her dad made for her when she was a kid, it's kind of a combination of a pontoon boat and a mississippi river boat, pretty cool but it weighs a ton or close to it anyway and i'd rather not have my cougar lost at the bottom of a lake.

i have also considered using the 67 K/H 4 piston calipers in the rear or possibly a 2 piston PBR caliper, either way you'd have get rid of the caliper mounting points for the stock CV rear caliper and build a new bracket for whatever caliper you decide to use but the vented rotor that is available is thicker than the solid rotor and would work great with a different caliper. i've investigated using the PBR and the SSBC aluminum version of the 65-67 style K/H 4 piston caliper along with Degins dropped spindles and a similar caliper up front.

 

[bnickel]

BTW, Steve, thanks for posting your experiment and i think there may be a lot of demand for a kit like this from you, i know i'd buy one.

 

[ultrastang]

I don't see any copyright info on them.

The fact that they are on the web being passed around, makes them public domain, like it or not. Once on the web, always on the web. Kinda like the genie out of the bottle... no putting it back.

That's not exactly true. This is becoming more the norm of what people think, but in reality, that is false.

Lots of things are passed around on the internet because a lot of people take it upon themselves to post photos/information from instruction sheets (for example) they get with a product they buy from some individual/company. The drawings/information contained within those instructions are the sole property of the author/producer of the documents/components. Posting that information without the owner's permission is an illegal act.

If you are the one that puts together a brake adaptation (for example), and you post the photos/information about it on a forum to inform others of what you've done, then there's nothing wrong with that. On the otherhand, if you are not the one who did the conversion and you post the information/specifics without consent, then you are at risk for legal litigation against you.

A copyright does not have to be registered with the copyright office to be a legally copyrighted document, although it makes the copyright even more secure to the orignal author if it is actually registered.

In my case, I do not mind if anyone is interested in copying what I've posted, because if I did care, I would not have shown it in the first place. However, there are other fabricators that do not share this same philosophy, and it would not bother them to have their lawyer send you a letter.

Scroll down the page (in the following link) to the section titled "Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation" for an explanation of how and when a document is copyrighted and to whom: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

 

[rbohm]

ultrastang, correct me if i am wrong, but you are saying that the mark Vll rear brake rotors are 11 1/4" dia. and vented correct?

 

[5.0ina66]

for anyone that is interested, there is a vented rotor available for the CV rear discs.

Really? Do tell! That's one of the reasons I kept my SVO discs, the CV swap looks much simpler and easier to DIY. I dig the CV e-brake setup, looks like it could actually stop something.

 

[bnickel]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...ryZ33564QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Slot...sPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-Re...ryZ33564QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

http://www.used-police-cars.com/2003-police-interceptor.html


basically want you want is rotors for the police package car, from 95-up. i think that will require that you use the 95-rear discs but for the vented rotors, i'm going for that. Ultrastangs competitor (Vintage Venom) sell ready to go CV rear disc kits with the vented rotors as well.


i've also been considering swapping on the 12" front rotors at some point as well, but we'll just have to wait and see

 

[Gailahan]

I am running crown vic brakes on my mustang. I had to cut the bottom part of the axle housing plate so that it would fit the crown vic bracket. I don't have any spacers though. The rotors aren't the vented ones, I was looking for vented rotors, but I couldn't find them for a 92 crown vic. The only downside (if it is really a downside) is that Ford only made one mold for the calipers and the brackets, so they could save a little extra money I'm sure... but the rear brakes are flip flopped, one caliper points toward the front of the car and the other points toward the rear. The e-brake is really solid though.

 

[ultrastang]

ultrastang, correct me if i am wrong, but you are saying that the mark Vll rear brake rotors are 11 1/4" dia. and vented correct?

Yes. The '84-'90 Mk VII rotors (same thing as '82-'87 Lincoln Continental and '84-'86 Mustang SVO brakes), are ventilated.

1. (wrecking yard) Mk VII rear rotor: http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8585/mkviirotor001uf5.jpg

2. http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/5825/mkviirotor002hg5.jpg

It wasn't until 1991 that the Mk VII rear discs changed to a solid rotor desgin.

 

[ultrastang]

I am running crown vic brakes on my mustang. I had to cut the bottom part of the axle housing plate so that it would fit the crown vic bracket. I don't have any spacers though. The rotors aren't the vented ones, I was looking for vented rotors, but I couldn't find them for a 92 crown vic. The only downside (if it is really a downside) is that Ford only made one mold for the calipers and the brackets, so they could save a little extra money I'm sure... but the rear brakes are flip flopped, one caliper points toward the front of the car and the other points toward the rear. The e-brake is really solid though.

I'm not sure if you're saying you have no spacers for the rotors (rotor centering rings), or if you're saying that you don't have any spacers for the axle bearings, or if you're meaning that you have neither of these?

The rotor centering rings are not as critical, but the problem without them is that every time you did any brake service work, or if you just simply took the wheels loose (change a flat, rotated the tires, swapped out wheels and tires for new ones), the rotor would shift slightly on the wheel studs. When you put the wheel back on, the rotor would not be in exactly the same place as before, and the pads would not track in the same exact plane on the friction surfaces of the rotors before the wheel was disturbed. With a centering ring, the rotor becomes hub-centric and is positively located in the same place in relation to the brake pads every time.

The axle bearing spacers, on the other hand, are very critical to the safe adaptation and operation of the C-V swap. Without them, you will have more than a 1/8" gap between the outside edge of the axle bearing to the axle bearing retainer plate. This will leave nothing to lock the axle/bearing into place within the socket of the housing's end flange. This would allow the axles to actually slide in and out of the housing the distance of the gap. --this would be an unsafe situation.

The C-V calipers are flip flopped on the axle, --passenger's side mounted in front of the axle. Driver's side mounted behind the axle), but there are actually two different caliper anchor bracket designs for the C-V rear brakes and this means there are two different axle bearing spacer thicknesses that would be needed, and this thickness would be determined by what model of C-V you got the brake components off of.