Dealer tells me I have to use Techron?

Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by 05 BLK-BLK, Sep 8, 2005.


  1. 05 BLK-BLK

    05 BLK-BLK New Member

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    Hey guys :flag:

    So I take the Stang in for a few things yesterday:
    • Fuel Gauge Problem
    • Passenger Airbag light issue
    • Upper strut bearing TSB (popping)

    The issue I'm having with the fuel gauge is that whenever I fill up, 90% of the time the gauge will go to empty and I'll get a "DTI error" on the message center and a "fuel low" warning. This only happens the first time I hit the key after a fill-up. The second time its usually normal.

    So, the service rep calls me today and asks me what kind of gas I'm using. I tell her whatever I can find... She proceeds to explain to me that I need to utilize a few botttles of the Chevron Techron additive to clear up the problem and from this point forward use only Chevron Techron fuel. I asked if Ford was going to provide me with the additive and of course she said no.

    She goes on to explain the reason for the Techron is that several of the fuel suppliers have a high sulphur content thats messing with the fuel gauge sending units and that the Techron cleans it off.

    Ok, I dont have a problem buying a few bottles of Techron to put in the car, but I do feel theres an issue of Principle here.

    The refiners throughout the country are required to produce a fuel that meets certain National guidelines / Standards / Specifications. The Auto manufacturers in turn are required to design their associated fuel systems to operate with a product developed under the same guidelines / standards / specifications.

    So, obviously Ford dropped the ball in their fuel system design department and in turn they're telling me that I need to use a specific brand of fuel and purchase extra additives as a band-aid for their design flaw. :shrug:

    Has anyone else experienced this?
     
    #1
  2. shooterm1

    shooterm1 New Member

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    Sound to me like >> >> :bs:



    Exactly so! * :flag: *
     
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  3. ctbaker

    ctbaker New Member

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  4. SinCityVogel

    SinCityVogel New Member

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    :bs:

    I say there is something wrong with ether the gas gauge or a small electronic issue in the sending unit. If the gauge is going back to normal after you turn the igntion on the second time, it doesn't seem that it would be that big of an issue.
     
    #4
  5. bvega

    Founding Member

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    The sulfur content has nothing to do with it. All gas brands are made at the same refinery. The only difference is in the additive packages. Ask your tanker driver next time you see him/her and they will tell you that they all use the same regional refinery.

    If the driver is delivering a mobil load then they will pull up to the mobil additive dispenser and fill the rest of the tank with the additives and then let the sloshing of the truck mix it up before it goes to the station and delivers the fuel.

    So for me the shell refinery in Bakersfield serves as the refinery for me region for all brands from mobil/exxon to chevron, to arco/bp, shell and Union 76(Unocal). They are all the same gas with different additive packages depending on brand.

    So low sulfur is total BS. Especially when you consider that it is intermittent and goes away after the second start up. What, did the sulfur build up just magically go away every second start up?
     
    #5
  6. afixer

    afixer The Informant

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    Normal Operation

    The fuel tank is a saddle tank design with variable resistance senders, driven by floats, that provide resistances related to fuel height, to the smart junction box (SJB). The fuel level is determined using a variable resistance fuel sender unit, with an approximate resistance range between 15 ohms at empty (E) and 160 ohms at full (F) ± 1%. The fuel pump sender is hardwired to the SJB through the signal circuit 1356 (LG/VT) and the return circuit 1357 (LB/YE). The remote fuel sender is hardwired to the SJB through the signal circuit 29 (YE/WH) and the return circuit 1357 (LB/YE). The SJB monitors the resistance readings that are sent to the SJB from the fuel senders and sends the instrument cluster a message over the communication network to command the fuel gauge with a corresponding movement of the pointer. If the remote fuel sender is open, the fuel gauge defaults to the fuel pump sender value only and the fuel gauge indicates E to 1/2 tank. If the fuel pump sender is open, the fuel gauge defaults to the empty position.

    Possible Causes

    circuit 29 (YE/WH) open, short to ground, or short to voltage
    circuit 1356 (LG/VT) open, short to ground, or short to voltage
    circuit 1357 (LB/YE) open, short to ground, or short to voltage
    fuel pump sender
    remote fuel sender
    SJB
    fuel tank
    instrument cluster

    PINPOINT TEST B: INCORRECT FUEL GAUGE INDICATION
    Test Step Result / Action to Take
    B1 RETRIEVE THE RECORDED INSTRUMENT CLUSTER AND SMART JUNCTION BOX (SJB) DTCs FROM BOTH THE CONTINUOUS AND ON-DEMAND SELF-TESTS
    Check for recorded SJB DTCs from the continuous and on-demand self-tests.
    Are any instrument cluster or SJB DTCs recorded?
    Yes
    If DTC B1201, B1202, B1204, B2627, or B2628, are retrieved, GO to B6.

    For all other SJB DTCs, REFER to the Smart Junction Box (SJB) Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Index.

    No
    GO to B2.
    B2 CARRY OUT THE INSTRUMENT CLUSTER FUEL GAUGE ACTIVE COMMAND USING THE DIAGNOSTIC TOOL
    Key in ON position.
    Enter the following diagnostic mode on the diagnostic tool: Instrument Cluster Active Command.
    Select the instrument cluster fuel level control active command. Trigger, monitor, and scroll the fuel level at: 0%, 50%, and 100%.
    Did the fuel gauge needle start at empty (E), move to half at 50%, and full (F) at 100%?
    Yes
    GO to B3.

    No
    GO to B13.
    B3 CHECK THE FUEL PUMP SENDER RESISTANCE READING
    NOTE: The fuel pump module resistance varies from 15 ± 1 ohms when empty (E) to 160 ± 1 ohms when full (F).
    Key in OFF position.
    Disconnect: Fuel Pump Sender C433.
    Measure the resistance between the fuel pump sender C433 pin 2, component side and the fuel pump sender C433 pin 4, component side.

    Is the resistance within specifications?
    Yes
    GO to B4.

    No
    GO to B5.
    B4 CHECK THE REMOTE FUEL SENDER RESISTANCE READING
    NOTE: The remote fuel sender resistance varies from 19 ± 2 ohms when empty (E) to 160 ± 4 ohms when full (F).
    Disconnect: Remote Fuel Sender C434.
    Measure the resistance between the remote fuel sender C434 pin 2, component side and the remote fuel sender C434 pin 4, component side.

    Is the resistance within specifications?
    Yes
    CONNECT the fuel pump sender and the remote fuel sender. GO to B6.

    No
    GO to B5.
    B5 INSPECT THE FUEL TANK
    Visually inspect the fuel tank for any damage or deformation.
    Is the fuel tank OK?
    Yes
    INSTALL a new fuel pump sender or remote fuel sender as necessary. REFER to Section 310-01. TEST the system for normal operation.

    No
    INSTALL a new fuel tank. REFER to Section 310-01. TEST the system for normal operation.
    B6 CHECK CIRCUIT 29 (YE/WH), CIRCUIT 1356 (LG/VT) AND CIRCUIT 1357 (LB/YE) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND WITH THE SMART JUNCTION BOX (SJB) DISCONNECTED
    Key in OFF position.
    Disconnect: SJB C2280c.
    Measure the resistance between the SJB connector, harness side and ground as follows:

    SJB Connector-Pin Circuit
    C2280c-31 1357 (LB/YE)
    C2280c-43 29 (YE/WH)
    C2280c-44 1356 (LG/VT)


    Are the resistances greater than 10,000 ohms?
    Yes
    GO to B8.

    No
    GO to B7.
    B7 CHECK CIRCUIT 29 (YE/WH), CIRCUIT 1356 (LG/VT) AND CIRCUIT 1357 (LB/YE) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND WITH THE FUEL PUMP SENDER AND THE REMOTE FUEL SENDER DISCONNECTED
    Disconnect: Fuel Pump Sender C433.
    Disconnect: Remote Fuel Sender C434.
    Measure the resistance between the SJB connector, harness side and ground as follows:

    SJB Connector-Pin Circuit
    C2280c-31 1357 (LB/YE)
    C2280c-43 29 (YE/WH)
    C2280c-44 1356 (LG/VT)


    Are the resistances greater than 10,000 ohms?
    Yes
    INSTALL a new fuel pump sender or remote fuel sender as necessary. REFER to Section 310-01. Clear the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

    No
    REPAIR the circuit in question. Clear the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
    B8 CHECK CIRCUIT 29 (YE/WH), CIRCUIT 1356 (LG/VT) AND CIRCUIT 1357 (LB/YE) FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE
    Key in ON position.
    Measure the voltage between the SJB connector, harness side and ground as follows:

    SJB Connector-Pin Circuit
    C2280c-31 1357 (LB/YE)
    C2280c-43 29 (YE/WH)
    C2280c-44 1356 (LG/VT)


    Is any voltage present?
    Yes
    GO to B9.

    No
    GO to B10.
    B9 CHECK CIRCUIT 29 (YE/WH), CIRCUIT 1356 (LG/VT) AND CIRCUIT 1357 (LB/YE) FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE WITH THE FUEL PUMP SENDER DISCONNECTED
    Key in OFF position.
    Disconnect: Fuel Pump Sender C433.
    Disconnect: Remote Fuel Sender C434.
    Key in ON position.
    Measure the voltage between the SJB connector, harness side and ground as follows:

    SJB Connector-Pin Circuit
    C2280c-31 1357 (LB/YE)
    C2280c-43 29 (YE/WH)
    C2280c-44 1356 (LG/VT)


    Is any voltage present?
    Yes
    REPAIR the circuit in question. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

    No
    INSTALL a new fuel pump sender. REFER to Section 310-01. CLEAR The DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
    B10 CHECK CIRCUIT 29 (YE/WH), CIRCUIT 1356 (LG/VT) AND CIRCUIT 1357 (LB/YE) FOR AN OPEN
    Key in OFF position.
    Disconnect: Fuel Pump Sender C433.
    Disconnect: Remote Fuel Sender C434.
    Measure the resistance between the SJB connector, harness side and the fuel pump sender connector, harness side; and between the SJB connector, harness side and the remote fuel sender connector, harness side as follows:

    SJB Connector-Pin Remote Fuel Sender Connector-Pin Fuel Pump Sender Connector-Pin
    C2280c-43
    29 (YE/WH) C434-4
    29 (YE/WH) —
    C2280c-31
    1357 (LB/YE) C434-2
    1357 (LB/YE) —
    C2280c-44
    1356 (LG/VT) — C433-4
    1356 (LG/VT)
    C2280c-31
    1357 (LB/YE) — C433-2
    1357 (LB/YE)


    Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?
    Yes
    GO to B11.

    No
    REPAIR the circuit in question. TEST the system for normal operation.
    B11 CHECK THE FUEL PUMP SENDER FOR A SHORT
    Measure the resistance between the fuel pump sender C433 pin 2, component side and the fuel pump sender C433 pin 1, component side; and between the fuel pump sender C433 pin 4, component side and the fuel pump sender C433 pin 1, component side.

    Are the resistances greater than 10,000 ohms?
    Yes
    GO to B12.

    No
    INSTALL a new fuel pump sender. REFER to Section 310-01. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
    B12 CHECK FOR CORRECT SJB OPERATION
    Disconnect all the SJB connectors.
    Check for:
    corrosion
    pushed-out pins
    Connect all the SJB connectors and make sure they seat correctly.
    Operate the system and verify the concern is still present.
    Is the concern still present?
    Yes
    INSTALL a new SJB. REFER to Section 419-10. TEST the system for normal operation.

    No
    The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
    B13 CHECK FOR CORRECT INSTRUMENT CLUSTER OPERATION
    Disconnect the instrument cluster connector.
    Check for:
    corrosion
    pushed-out pins
    Connect the instrument cluster connector and make sure it seats correctly.
    Operate the system and verify the concern is still present.
    Is the concern still present?
    Yes
    INSTALL a new instrument cluster. REFER to Instrument Cluster in this section. TEST the system for normal operation.

    No
    The system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector.
     
    #6
  7. 05 BLK-BLK

    05 BLK-BLK New Member

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    Thanks for the replies...

    I agree, it does sound like totally BS, but I performed a search on Techron and found this:

    From this it sounds like Ford was (or is) testing out the Techron additive.

    I feel this is an electronic issue. I cant see what the additive would do as I'm picturing a sealed float assembly coupled to an external potentiometer providing the resistance variable.

    Afixer,

    Thats some great info. Do you work for Ford?
     
    #7
  8. donnyonee

    donnyonee New Member

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    please no offense but quit your crying, just add a bottle of techron every tank or 3 and youll be fine, this is a common problem with corvettes and they work thru it nicely.
     
    #8
  9. gp001

    Founding Member

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    I am going to move this to TALk because the only tech in it is Afixers post and I'm not sure people would even know to look in this thread for that info based on the title.
     
    #9
  10. Big-Foot

    Big-Foot Member

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    I've owned and worked on many Corvettes (C3 thru C5) and I've never heard of this before.

    Anyone hand me this line of :bs: bull***** :bs: they better have a good relationship with the Attorney General's office because that would be my next stop along with my owner's manual which makes absolutely no reference to required fuel additives...
    :mad:
     
    #10
  11. Jenns01TA

    Jenns01TA Active Member

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    Afixer has hit this right on the sending unit. :) The techron is BS. It is a detergent for the fuel system and would have little to nothing to do with the electronics of the fuel gauge. :notnice:

    Sad....really darn sad.

    Jenn
     
    #11
  12. Wsmatau

    Wsmatau Member

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    By the way, the head of the EPA suspended all sulfer content regulations for the time being because of hurricane Katrina, in order to help increase gas supplies. So even if it were the issue, using Chevron cannot be a plausible solution. :bs:
     
    #12
  13. Berserker

    Berserker New Member

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    I was just about to also mention this. This is what's going to cause the problem?
     
    #13
  14. 05 BLK-BLK

    05 BLK-BLK New Member

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    Well, got my car back from the dealer and the service rep told me that the only states having this issue is Arizona and California. She said she sees it all of the time. I totally agree with the B.S. flag thrown about and I expressed my concern about Ford not designing their fuel handling system to conform to the standard national guidelines for fuel. Of course I got the "Deer in the Headlights" stare. :lol:

    Anyway, I try it and take it right back if it doesnt work. They at least covered the rental.

    donnyonee:

    What the **** did you just say?

    [​IMG]

    I'll say this for the village idiot. Nobody would "work through it nicely". The last thing someone wants to do is have to add a fuel detergent / additive every few tankfulls. Like said above, its not in the owners manual.

    gp001

    Personally, IMHO,I feel that it's a Tech issue...but so be it :)
     
    #14
  15. Jenns01TA

    Jenns01TA Active Member

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    Well Tony,

    The Doe in the Headlights is clueless. But, like you said, give her a try (the car) and see what happens.

    If it doesn't work you can always PM Mr. Longhorn and have him initiate a threat against Ford again. Heck, maybe you'll get a new car. :rlaugh: (pppffftttttt.....shakes head :nonono: )

    Just kidding, bud. :nice: That is pretty jacked up. :bs: It sounds about as good as the Ford tech standing next to my V-6 with an insane exhaust rattle at cold RPM Idle telling me "That's the way you want your car to sound!' and then another "Sounds like your heater blower". errrrrrr Heater and Climate control was all off.... Most of those guys have no clue. Sadly. Sometimes, by no fault of their own. They are squeezed into making an assessment of a vehicle problem within a little block of time alloted based on the potential problem. They'll limp you along until after the warranty period and then spend 10 hours pinpointing it for you at ASE Labor Rate. Ahhhhhhh.... "Service" at its finest. :(

    Good Luck.

    Jenn

    P.S. > Don't mind gp001 - He just has to move something daily. :nice: Makes him feel productive. :D
     
    #15
  16. shooterm1

    shooterm1 New Member

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    JENN!?

    You sound so cynical . . . :lol:

    (who knew?) :confused:
     
    #16
  17. Jenns01TA

    Jenns01TA Active Member

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    :rlaugh: Oh yes.... I have a cynical streak. Are you aghast and ashamed now?
    Okay..wait... (****takes a throaty breath****)......

    --Take 2 --

    Tony,

    It's going to be fine. Just add 20 bottles of Techron like the smart lady advised and everything will be just fine. You won't even need gas with all the smoke they just blew up your (ommitted to retain PG rating). :nice:

    :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh:
     
    #17
  18. Berserker

    Berserker New Member

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    OMG, is this photoshoped or did he actually come out looking like satan by himself?
     
    #18
  19. Jenns01TA

    Jenns01TA Active Member

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    I'm guessin' Satan. He was bound to make an apperance at some point. :flag:
     
    #19
  20. Berserker

    Berserker New Member

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    Nahhhh....

    [​IMG]
     
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