Dear Freakintiger...

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by Crovax, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. mr_woodster

    mr_woodster Active Member

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    Man, i missed out on a really good thread! I have a few questions..

    Bhuff, What parts of the scripture dont u believe or take at face value?

    Cougar, Science has always facinated me ...and much of science is a study of God's awesome handy work. The accuarcy of the word has been used by historians and archelogist alike to find lost citys/towns, battlefeilds , Even place Kings and rulers by years, tracing genologies and lienage of all the above. Now ...with the Fact that the bible can be verfied (by itself and along with other ancient writings /historical documents) keep this in mind.

    Say you and a buddy show up late to a movie, you want to know what happend in the begining so, Do you ask someone who was there before you? or do u turn to your buddy and say "what do u think happend"?

    Darwinism and the big bang, evolution in general has been around for what? a couple hundred years AT most. Scripture has been proven (traced back) over a couple thousand years. Who are you asking where u came from? Your buddy who came late with you, or the one who has seen it from the begining?
    (ps:where did they draw evolution from, carbon dating has only been around for a little bit...science is not accurate, ask any cutting edge scientist. If it was, you'd still be studying science books from the 1950's)

    Freakingtiger : Yes your correct, we are not here to condem anyone....You guys wether you believe what we are saying or not, must understand the reason behind us sharing (and to some of you seem like were "stepping on toes") this belief with you. If this belief didnt work, if was wrong or full of loop holes, or a garrenteed waste of time...it wouldnt have lasted and spread as it has. Like 140cilx said, I'm cool with all you guys on where you stand, but that doesnt mean i dont hope that you will see the love of Jesus that surpases understanding and is the only way into heaven. Believe me, i want to have a giant 2.3 family gathering in heaven!
     
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  2. My Black Beast

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    I believe more like Bnuff30

    Man, I wish I would have caught this thread sooner. Don't hate me for maybe bringing stuff up again but this is a topic that I have struggled with and put a lot of time into.

    I have been a Christian about my whole life and I regularly go to church where my brother is a pastor. This past year I got a job teaching Biology and Physical Science, so as you may have guessed, I have struggled with the topic of evolution and christianity. My brother has helped me a lot on this topic.

    A couple things that I have agreed on:

    1) Everyone on this earth has to belive in Microevolution ( which means change can occur within a species). This is fact because we have white, black, hispanic, asian, etc. people. We are not all the same; our DNA is slightly different. Ex: Black people can get the disease sickle cell anemia, but not white people.

    2) Macroevolution is change from one species to another (Darwin). I currently don't believe we came from monkeys but I am not going to say that one species can't microevolve so much that it appears to be another species.

    3) The bible was written in Hebrew which has a fraction of the vocabulary that English has. So I don't think you can know exactly what god was meaning. Most words in Hebrew had several meanings. So when you read the Hebrew bible, scriptures can mean slightly different when translated into English. All the pastors at my church make a point of this and tell you different ways that a scripture can be interpreted into English. The King James version is only one translation from Hebrew to old English. Now that I think about it, it may have been translated from Hebrew to Latin to English. I could be wrong though.

    4) I am a believer that god told the people things that they would understand. God would not mention topics like DNA, evolution, genetics, astronomy, physics. If we did come from monkeys, I don't believe he would tell people 6,000 years ago. It would not make sense. I don't think he would mention that there are Billions apon Billions of galaxies each with billions of stars with planets that would be habitable for life. And that there are other people out there. If he did tell them, 1st, they would not understand, 2nd, it would distract them from what god wants them to do.

    IMO believing in evolution or not doesn't have to change your christian view or beliefs. I don't think all of this science stuff matters to god. If macroevolution is true, so what, that just means that god chose to make us that way. I don't believe that all matter and organic compounds came out of no where.

    I did not intend to write this much but thank you for your time. I need to get back to working on my 2.3T project.
     
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  3. mr_woodster

    mr_woodster Active Member

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    True God did create us with many awesome capabilities, from a body that can repair itself to a mind with a higher intelect than the animals around us and everything inbetween. Our bodies have the ability over time to adapt to certain atmospheric changes, pressures, exsposures etc. At the same point i know from the begining man was the MOST inteligant creature in Gods creation. A thorough study of Gensis clearly points out that God had real personal relationship with Adam (later Eve) ...Adam didnt speak in grunts or "m m m me cave man", rather he had the God given ability/task of naming the animals. Now this may sound so old, maybe a bed time story for some...but i dare you to stop and concider the mental capability of someone who can pull names out of thin air for hundreds/thousands of animals...not only that, but also could look at them and comprehend that he was NOT like them (a mate for adam was not found among them).
    Most people search for the missing link, i ask whats missing...we started as human, not an organic slime or a monkey. The anology that man just "happend" is commonly compared to a tornado riping through a junkyard and contructing a Complete flyable with tray tables and all 747 aircraft. If you can believe that that can happen, then i can see how u can believe in evolution. I must say though, you have more (blind) faith than i! ;)

    Also for those of you who "believe" in the word of God, ive heard this one. "if you can believe the first sentance of the bible, then every page there after is understandable/graspable."
    And if you do believe that first sentance and any after it, then you know that the bible is the pure word of God that "remains the same through the ages". God refers to himself as the "Rock of the ages"...unchanging.
    John 1:1 says this...

    1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
    3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made


    Since God declares himself as the word, and also declares himself unchanging, I believe He has the power, forsight and ability to protect his word over the ages,translations and even attempts to pick it apart. Notice how those who attack scripture have changed tactics, mans knowledge has change over many years, but yet the scripture remains, Still standing.
    Amazing aint it.
     
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  4. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    I love you all man, Just upset because I was not able to hook up and see freakintiger when I was there. I dont care where we all stand on one issue it is natural to diasgree on some things and that is what free will is all about. I do know one thing though, I am glad that no one in here gets ****y over someones views and that is why I like comming in here and talking with you all.
     
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  5. freakintiger

    freakintiger New Member

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    Sorry, kiddiccarus, it was'nt meant to be. Not only did I have to work, but I had to help a friend install a radiator( put a 1984 Olds Custom Cruiser 3 row into a '92 Caprice, modification city!). Got done at 1AM! Caprice is good to go! We'll hang out some time in the future, I'm sure of it!
     
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  6. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    It is all good. I go on vacation there once a year. More as I get older and get more vacation time per year. 4 weeks vacation this year, 1 week Option (I can work for double or vacation for single), and I get a week of sick time too.
     
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  7. Crovax

    Crovax Type O Danzigative the Dark
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    Why do my threads always get ****ed up with this talk?
     
    #67
  8. mr_woodster

    mr_woodster Active Member

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    Gotta be the hair?
     
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  9. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    Ok, Stiring the pot with a question.

    God, made man in his image, sent his son to the earth to walk with man. Where is God's race? the Omnipitant race of beings that are his equals?
     
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  10. mr_woodster

    mr_woodster Active Member

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    God formed man in his image, that could mean we have some of the same phyiscal characteristics as him, OR it could (more likely) mean we have free will and a mental state that understands/comprehends Life.

    God's race? God is God, the first and the last..."who is like the lord our God" (reference:psalms everywhere) .... He is God, there are no other "God's" according to scripture, sorry...its not a men in black terristrial struggle for universe's in marbles ;)
     
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  11. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    LOL love the marbles rendidtion, but I dont see the validity in a one omnipitant being. No I have not read the scriptures and I am not trying to discount them or bash them I just cannot at this point believe that one creature of any status is the utmost.

    If some one created the lives that we know it and shys away from their existance seems odd to me. I know that you are going to say something about having faith that there is someone there and that someone way back when seen and spoke to them. All there is now are books of them both left behind for people to read and choose from.
     
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  12. 140cilx

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    Kiddicarus,
    He didn't shy away, He gave us time to make a decision, and gives you everything you need to make your knowledgable decision. You are in that time.
    Review, one of the things required in considering the origins of the universe, whether a believer in God or not, is knowing that something happened. There was nothing at some point and then suddenly something. In the case of believers you alway's wonder, "Well where did God come from?". His answer to Moses that asked this question was, "I am". OK ... fine. In the case of unbelievers they wonder, "Where'd the stuff come from originally that gathered for the big bang?" I got no answer for you.
    I can't explain where God came from, but since I believe in God, I believe He created the "stuff" by speaking it into existence. I don't believe He used the big bang theory. I believe He did things just as the Bible says He did. He Spoke it into existence. It's very interesting and simple to read. I recommend you take a Bible, turn to page 1 and read. But what God say's He did was create us in His image, set us in dominion over everything else, and made us perfect and for fellowship with Him. We are here to have a relationship with God from now throughout all eternity (He says He knew us before we were in the womb even, and fashioned us in the womb), but God gave us free choice - we can choose Him or reject Him. Otherwise we'd be little robot drones - not good for fellowship.

    Who would you rather have as a friend, a real true friend that likes you warts and all and loves you, or someone designed to like you that just does and doesn't know any better?

    Think of this, God promises everyone on earth for every generation will hear about, and hear from God, consider Him and accept or reject Him. Reject or choose Him freely, they'll be given all the evidences they require to make a qualified choice.

    God say's there is no middle ground, and if you think things through, there is no middle ground. In any plan, you are either for it or against it. The angels (another source of beings for which God enjoys a relationship) have the same choice, 2/3rds chose God, 1/3 chose to revolt with Satan. Satan was God's preimmenent angel, but some twisted pride filled, selfish way he decided he wanted to be worshipped even though he was the creature and not the creator. He wanted to establish himself above God instead of just below. He was instrumental to introducing sin to mankind. He went to Eve, manipulated and tricked her, but she straight up disobeyed God, so did Adam. Mankind is tainted with sin due to our imperfect parents. These same parents btw contained all the genetic material that now makes up all of us different races, no evolution involved.

    Now since we are tainted with sin, and that's easy to prove...ever screw up? Of course, we all do. The only perfect and simple answer was God giving us a way to return back to a relationship with Him for free! He came to earth as a man, grew up, showed us how much He really loved us by dying for us after living a perfect, sin free life. He didn't even take the easy way out of dying in a somewhat less challenging way. He took the ultimate, most painful, sickest, most depraved possible death that cruel men had to offer. He took it in style without relying on His supernatural abilities, just let them beat Him to a pulp. Then after all was done well He died when He chose, no coma, no loss of consciousness. Then when He chose He made His destroyed body alive again and injury free except for leaving the nail scars on His hands and feet, and spear scar on His side - so we can all check it out some day.
    When God returns to set up His kingdom on earth, those that choose Him, He will surround Himself with them and keep them. Those that reject Him, He sends them off with Satan to the place He prepared for Satan. It's the perfect resolution, all laid out for us, simple to understand & continues from there. You will never not exist. You are eternal.

    Choosing God is a freedom from the things in life that beat on you now. Satan and some men try to turn it into a twist of you must give up the true you and become this wuus, subserviant to this overpowering cruel forceful God, but it's not that way at all. Choosing God is a freedom to drop off the shackles of all the things you don't like about you and drop them off like nasty scales that have kept you immobile or weighed down. And the strength God gives is amazing. I'm a dude that has been at the very bottom of the barrel, and now when I have a need I ask God and watch Him intervene and take care of His boy. It's awesome!

    Cool!
     
    #72
  13. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    We all have our own views and I hope no one is offended by mine.
     
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  14. mr_woodster

    mr_woodster Active Member

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    Correct, we all have a differnt view, but a view is determind by location. Not trying to say that your so far off, but rather, trying to relay what we know to be true, from our location. :)
     
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  15. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    Location? What do you mean by that? Oh I know that you guys are not argueing with me its cool man.
     
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  16. Cougar

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    A great book is "God's Debris" by Scott Adams. It's a thought experiment and is pretty straight foward. One of the ideas is that for god to exist he'd need a challenge, or goal, or else why exist? Therefore, god could have destroyed himself and let the universe run itself at the dawn of time. Could god be the ball of energy and matter described in the big bang theory. Regardless on your views, it's a very interesting read.
     
    #76
  17. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    My question still stands how can you be the only member of your race? How can you exist alone? 1 male no females? Created in his own image? Why are we not Asexual?
     
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  18. 351wcoupe

    351wcoupe New Member

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    I think cro is a sexual. :rlaugh:
     
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  19. kiddiccarus

    kiddiccarus New Member

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    :damnit:
     
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  20. 140cilx

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    Kiddiccarus,

    :D I think you actually wrote more than me dude! :D That's so rare!

    Yes, there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ, where He shows us what it is like when God reigns. I'm looking forward to it. Then He will destroy the earth, actually everything, the universe, and create it all new. His that chose Him will populate it. I'm not sure what we'll be doing moment to moment. I hope I can just explore, watch, visit, worship - but who knows.

    Yes, according to the Bible, anything other than choosing God is rejecting Him. God say's no one will ever live not given everything required to choose Him or reject Him. No nether world of non-participating. You can't stand before God someday and say you were neutral because God says He will show you your rejection of Him. God doesn't dig punishing people, doesn't want to reject any, but He will ultimately if they reject Him ultimately. The Bible say's He comes to each person throughout their lives until they make a final decision on where they stand. If it's not with God, they won't be with God. They have rejected God, they are Satan's. Why Satan thrives on this and is at such odds with God and such a hater is bewildering. He is the author of insanity and hate and anger and lies.

    Some of the things you responded with, well, we'd get into conjecture between your opinion and mine - and who cares right? I was passing on to you what the Bible says is truth.

    Yeah, creationist believe that all the genetic material in humans came from Adam and Eve, every bit, and they weren't white anglo's (you cracked me up there). Brothers and sisters were marrying the first generation of offspring and etc, but this wasn't a problem as every bit of the genetic material now, was in them, and more since some races have been lost between them and our generation. There's some really interesting information on this and worthy of your review. I like http://www.answersingenesis.org/home.aspx for nearly all science questions.

    Man is not becoming smarter or more developed, entropy wins that game. We are able to share information much better now and build on it. I haven't looked at this in a long time, but a study showed how athlete's in the Olympics from the beginning until present are setting lesser and lesser records, jumping, throwing, running, things like that.

    Asexual? Hard to be since when God created man He said, "be frutiful and multiply". He created us in His image is what He said, just image, we're still in flesh and blood bodies, w/ cell's, bones, etc. He is not, actually in Revelation (last book of the Bible) God gives John a vision of the throneroom of heaven and instructs John to write it down for us. It's quite amazing, read Revelation 4 for a picture of what God looks like. http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/...h&version=NKJV&passage=Revelation 4&x=11&y=12

    But one thing you keep going back to is this race of God, according to God, there is no race, according to the Bible and the things going on in heaven, God's throne, his actions, interactions, there's no race, but that would still be an irrelevant question not to get hung up on, because of the next question. Whether it was God alone period, or a race of God, the next question would be "well where did this race come from?". Are they all starting their little worlds and ruling them? Like God does the earth? Mormons believe something very similar to that. This is contrary to what God said in the Bible.

    And a daily interactive relationship with God? It's there for you. He hasn't pulled away and left mankind out in the universe alone. There's millions of us Christians on earth having a daily interaction with God. He covers us, blesses us, protects us, handles all of our problems. I am amazed daily at things God does right in front of me. I wouldn't waste time telling you such were it otherwise.

    For sure, all of your questions will be answered when you are dead right? All of your questions can be answered if you will read God's word now. That's cooler. Everyone's standing around kicking tires, nobody's willing to get in and drive the car. Drive the crap out of it, dog it, try to break it, buy it if you like. Reading the Bible doesn't automatically make you a Christian so don't be skeered! :D
     
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