"Different Point of View" GM Vs Ford

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by D0cks, Mar 1, 2004.


  1. RiceEating5.0

    RiceEating5.0 Founding Member

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    Z28x, good find. However, this is only recent. Have you looked at the previous years?

    2001
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    2000
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    Consumer reports: Reliability risks. Half GM, one of them camaro.
    http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/usedpicks.html

    As you see, GM wasn't better then ford till recently when Ford took a s**t on quality. Infact, i read somewhere that since the 60's till the present, Ford was #1 in quality in terms of thte big three (that really isn't saying much:D). Now GM has taken huge strides, and their quality is pretty good (as shown in those studies you posted), and so they seemed to have improved.
    #21
  2. shatner saves

    shatner saves New Member

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    There are some pretty notable names in the bottom half of this list. The differences between Ford and GM aren't that significant. Ford's ranking can probably be attributed to issues with specific models, not the entire line.
    #22
  3. RiceEating5.0

    RiceEating5.0 Founding Member

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    You'll have to correct me if i'm wrong, but did the base z28 coupe have leather steering, 17" wheels, keyless entry, power driver seats/windows/mirrors, traction control, etc... standard?

    I ask because i did a pricing a few years back, just to compare GT and z28. My findings then pointed at a price difference of 1500-1700 dollars between comparably equipped models. I believe you had to buy the comfort and convenience package (a 1,400-1700 dollar option) on the z28 just to get the level of equipment standard on the GT (minus the 17" wheels which aren’t available on z28).

    Overall, my observations a year or so ago pointed at the camaro being more expensive when comparing v6 to v6 and Gt to z28. MSRP's where close, but the standard equipment level and options needed priced the camaro higher. That's why you don't see 23,000 dollar z28 are the dealership lots.
    #23
  4. Sicarius428

    Sicarius428 Active Member

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    I live in the Bay Area in the Peoples Replublic of California and the Camero's were more expensive by a couple thousand here. My friend did buy a 02 SS and the cloth interior patern looked like it was stolen from american airlines. It was pretty ugly in my opinion. The Cobra was always about 1K more than the SS here too in case you were wondering but there wern't any options for it. It came with everything... I guess the Mach1000 was an option. The 6 speed on the z28 is a great feature but the 2K GT has no problem pegging the spedo at 155 with more room to go. The 5 speed really isn't an issue in my eyes therefore. I am not saying that the GT is faster... on paper the z28 beats it, I just have not experienced it, at the stop light or on the freeway. My friend had a No2 stroked 396 94 Z28. That car would smoke any of mine and anybody else's I know in its prime but the fact is that the rear end died first, then the already rebuilt tranny the second time. He had to spend 10K on moser 12 bolt and another race preped tranny. Keep in mind KBB value is only like 4500. Bang for the buck definately goes to the Mustang. Especially when it comes to how strong the parts are. You can sink a lot of money into a chevy and make them go really fast but you will end up paying a lot more in the end not including the initial cost of a couple of grand more.
    Kevin
    Kevin
    #24
  5. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    No, Z28 came with cloth and 16" rims. Most of the time an equally equiped Camaro was $1000 more due to the cost of T-tops, it was hard to find a Z28 or SS without them. Also the Z28 came with the automatic standard, it is about $900 on the Stang.
    #25
  6. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    THe 5 speed tranny in the Mustang is a weak link, THat is the Great thing about the Z28 and '03 Cobra, they have the T56 6 speed manual. It can handle a lot more torque.

    As far as bang for the buck goes, the 2002 Z28 had 50HP+ more than the GT and had a base price of $22,495 ($700 less than Mustang) and came with your choice of auto or M6 tranny standard.
    http://www.poltergeist.us/page/SS/Docs/SSsticker.html

    2002 Mustang GT stated at $23,220 ($700 more than a Camaro) http://www.asmart.net/home/sticker.htm

    B4C Camaro had a V8 for $21,295 http://www.sspmustang.org/technical/Other_window_sticker_5.htm
    #26
  7. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    And let's not forget the styling of the geo storm. But on a more serious note. They may have been good cars. But they didn't sell. Which just goes to prove that hp doesn't always sell cars.
    #27
  8. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    aside from the Mustang, they out sold every other coupe on the Market. If HP doesn't sell then why are the big 3 in a HP war? Although isn't everyones #1 priority.
    #28
  9. skywarp

    skywarp New Member

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    I don't know about anyone else but F-bodies on the Island are more money than fully loaded GTs. Camaros with a LS1 go for 19-20K on lots. Forget about the SS or WS6 24-25K. GTs at the most for the coupe 18K.
    #29
  10. Sicarius428

    Sicarius428 Active Member

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    Prices are relative to the area and what people are willing to pay for them. My friend walked off the lot in 02 with a black GT fully loaded and out the door payed 21,500. My other friend got a SS for 31k which is pretty good here.
    As of 01 they changed to the beafier T5 possibly the Tremec(i think but i may be wrong) but that is more than the engine needed in this last generation even with with some engine modifications. I still have my stock tranny in my 90 5.0 with 131K miles. There are plenty of people with superchargers on their stock tranny too. Just got to know the limits of your equipment. The T5 also kept the cost down which Chevy/GM obviously couldn't pull a profit from the Camero/FireChicken which led to its demise. Ford put more money into the modular development instead of milking a 30 year old engine design and just made minor upgrades to the tranny over the years as needed... because a tranny cannot get much more revolutionary. It changes gears. They always had the option for the T56 but why... It really doesn't need it. No doubt the the T56 is a great tranny and I swear if anything ever breaks I will get one but I don't know if the z28 can even justify having one. Granted it gave room for the bigger 350ci to grow but that is over 100 foot lbs of torque more than the the tranny is rated at. I really doubt too many street cars have those type of mods to justify it especially since the huge majority of people dont mod their cars other than exhaust which doesnt give too much torque. T56 was not used to its full potential most of the time which cut into Chevy's profits. People that bought the Camero wanted a Camero... not because of it's T56.
    Profits sell, not hp... the Camero couldn't get the sales it needed to cover the cost. No matter how much GM had a legacy with the Camero, the GM big wigs saw it as a loss. Trust me, I do believe in competiton and I never wished the Camero/Firebird gone. It is very unfortunate that someday they may revive the name in some front wheel drive car but we can now all sleep better knowing that we narrowed it down to the T56 as the cause of its end.
    #30
  11. Mach428

    Mach428 New Member

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    Simply put, I like the looks of a stock Mustang, especially my 04 Yellow Mach, over the looks of and stock camaro. I would have considered a WS6 If they still made it, thats a beautiful car. I have have to say the deciding factor would be that I got my Mach alot cheaper then any new lS1. 0% APR at 28,000 is pretty good for a Mach. For alot cheaper I got a Mustang that can hang right in there with the Ls1.
    #31
  12. gearheadfred50

    gearheadfred50 New Member

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    The big thing I see with late model Mustangs and Camaro/Firebird/Trans Am's is the aftermarket and the ease to do the modifications. Every try changing plugs on a 93+ Camaro? I could do head gaskets on a 5.0 in the same amount of time. Driving position is also a big factor between them. It feels like you are driving a flight simulator for a space craft when driving a Z28/TA. An 8 mile long dashboard that you can't see the hood, and blind spots everywhere. The seats are way better, Ford seats suck, but then again there is the aftermarket. Ford transmisssions have always been POS, but slap in a Tremec and all is better.
    #32
  13. Lawman85

    Lawman85 Founding Member

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    What's a "camaro" ? :shrug:

    Isn't that the car they had to stop producing???
    :rlaugh:
    #33
  14. 65conv50

    65conv50 New Member

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    That's one of the cars they decided to stop producing. They quit advertising them, would not ship what dealers wanted (and customers asked for), and in general killed them off from the inside. Speculation was they didn't make the bux$$ per copy they wanted as the Mustang sold for less and kept the price down. (My daughter bought a new 96 Firebird when she finished college for less than the Saturn and Mustang she also considered. - a lot less. She still has it, and loves it.)
    #34

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