So, you are saying that Arning developed the drop as part of a complete performance suspension package for 4 or 5 cars? Well, since you can't find a Falcon with that set-up, and you can hardly find a Shelby with that drop only, I guess it is a moot point. Face it, Shelby is the only one who made the drop popular and did it to more cars in a year and a half than anybody else, therefore the term Shelby drop.Arning did develop the drop as part of a performance suspension package that did include IRS. Many 63 and 64 Falcons were tested on and it was these cars that the Mustang IRS was installed. 4 or 5 cars (all falcons but 1) got the original Ford IRS put under them.
Doing Shelby drop
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brianj5600
Active Member
I would be suprised if Arning was the first person to move an UCA. I think it is comical that people argue this. Ever heard of a gulstrand mod? http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension_geome.htm#Re-located upper mount I guess this is a Arning drop as well. If arning did it to Falcons and Shebly did it to Mustangs, maybe it depends on what car it is done as to what to call it. Since mine are not done from any template, I'll call mine a Jones mod.
the guldstrand mod is very similar to the shelby/arning/UCA drop but was done to the trans am camaros first at the end of the 68 season
CraigMBA
New Member
I want to post this picture SO bad but I'm concerned somebody will get mad. So, I'll just post the link and say if you're offended by 'colorful' launguage don't click it.
You were warned.
http://dogtoe.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg
You were warned.
http://dogtoe.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg
CraigMBA
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It was a test mule program that got axed under the watchful eye of the cost accountants at Ford. Which, incidentally, I am not tossing under the bus. After WW2 Ford knew it's P&L at the end of a year, but could not identify what the contribution margin was of any particular activity. Bob McNamera and crew fixed that before he got promoted to CEO and then five months later got asked to join the Kennedy White House.
So, in a way, I guess Republicans can blame McNamera for lack of an IRS in a production Mustang on him too.
McNamara huH?
He was a politician for Christ'sake and was pretty much up to his neck with concerns about the Vietnam war while he was in office. The Chevorlet Corvair was more of a concern back then than the Mustang.
brianj5600
Active Member
That is why I brought it up. I thought somebody might want to correct me for calling it the Gulstrand mod and not the Arning mod. Arning is the inventor of moving the UCA.
well Klaus Arning is the first we know about and the Ford engineer that devised it for use on the falcon platform cars and all of it's subsequent descendants, mustang, torino, fairlane, maverick, granada, etc.
Dick Guldstrand was teh guy who devised it for GM for use on the Camaro/Firebird and it's descendants. the Guldstrand mod is also slightly different than the Arning/shelby mod. i'm sure that someone in the Chrysler camp devised something for the Cuda/Challenger platform, possibly even the earlier trans am effort cars the Barracuda/Valiant/Dart and i'm sure they call it even something different as well.
i call it the Shelby drop most of the time because that is waht it is most commonly referred to on the internet. it used to just be called the mustang upper control arm drop in all the magazines i read back in th 80's
Yes, we all understand that Arning came up with the original idea, but CS actually did it in a production car, and sold several thousand Shelby Drop cars that Gulstrand, or Arning were not able to do because they didn't have the maketing powers to make it happen.
zookeeper
Founding Member
I don't think Shelby sold several thousand cars with the UCA modification, more like a couple hundred. Seems like I read somewhere that cars up to and including number 252 got the A-arm drop. But that's kinda nit-picking, CS was the one who popularized it for Ford guys, even if he didn't invent it.
brianj5600
Active Member
I am poking fun at the bickering. I call it the Shelby drop, but if someone calls it Arning drop, we all know what it means. If it was not for Shelby no one would know who Arning is/was.
everyone calls it teh shelby drop for the most part and i don't see it as a problem, we're just trying to clarify who actually invented it and it was not Carroll Shelby or anyone that even worked for him, that's the whole point. someone earlier in the thread stated that Shelby invented the drop and that is just plain incorrect, just giving credit where credit is due, that's all.
edit: oh by the way, Carroll Shelby also experimented with Klaus Arining's IRS as well and at least a couple of prototype cars were made with it, the most famous of course being the 68 Shelby coupe EXP-500 aka: the Green Hornet, which was a mule car for the IRS, a prototype fuel injection system, a special heavy duty c6 transmission, a reare disc brake system, and of course was an engineering mule to test the possibility of using the coupe body style in the Shelby line-up, the 67 coupe prototype known as Big Red actually became the development mule for the 68 California Special and the Green Hornet either played a role in that as well or was an early production GT/CS, i honestly can't remember for sure which, but the IRS was especially cool in that car and one day i'd like to re-create my own version of it, though i'll probably use a lot of existing parts from the Cobra IRS, MK VIII, Explorer, T-bird SC and other parts but it will definitely have a 9" center section like the Green Hornet had.
edit: oh by the way, Carroll Shelby also experimented with Klaus Arining's IRS as well and at least a couple of prototype cars were made with it, the most famous of course being the 68 Shelby coupe EXP-500 aka: the Green Hornet, which was a mule car for the IRS, a prototype fuel injection system, a special heavy duty c6 transmission, a reare disc brake system, and of course was an engineering mule to test the possibility of using the coupe body style in the Shelby line-up, the 67 coupe prototype known as Big Red actually became the development mule for the 68 California Special and the Green Hornet either played a role in that as well or was an early production GT/CS, i honestly can't remember for sure which, but the IRS was especially cool in that car and one day i'd like to re-create my own version of it, though i'll probably use a lot of existing parts from the Cobra IRS, MK VIII, Explorer, T-bird SC and other parts but it will definitely have a 9" center section like the Green Hornet had.
CraigMBA
New Member
McNamara huH?
You can make a pretty strong argument that McNamara saved Ford from extinction after WW2.
With that, I'm done responding to you and you are on ignore.
dennis112
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CraigMBA
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I fixed it, but try this one.
http://dogtoe.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg
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