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Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by 02roush, Jul 28, 2004.
people make up stuff to feel better about themselves
Or their purchases or their not being able to afford something better. There are just too many different reasons why people would do this. To not question it's integrity. His opinions on the car are valid from his point of view only. But here's another question. Why would they be having people compare it to other cars now? Job one is just over a month away. It's not likely that they would change anything at this point. Even with potential customers posting negative reviews. Wouldn't this "test" have been more usefully done about 4 to 6 months ago. When somethings could have been changed. I mean afterall they said they went to ford events and asked people what they liked about the car. This is why the live axle setup has stayed (That price, and apparently some engineering difficulties.).
my decision is made, it doesn't matter how it handles to me, it's a mustang, I've always dreamed of owning a mustang, and I'm going to get it, so there
There is no replacement for the sound of a real American V8
I can see the 350z performing as well maybe a little better and possibly the rx-8 but a GTO is not going to touch a newly designed mustang with an all new suspension and a near 50-50 weight ratio in the twisties...there is just NO WAY.
I also call bs to paying you $150 to drive these cars.
The other issue with this story is. Okay so they had a study group. Why is it only the negative sotries that we hear?
Exactly, a Monaro isnt going to beat the 05 suspension wise, im calling too.
Yeah although I belive this is BS, it is really hard to believe the 05 handling would be so poor. I can't wait until the magazines do a proper test of the car.
so then we can say the magazines hate fords right lol
well they will prob run it against an m5 and rip on it the whole time.
Hmm ... that makes 5, and no such thing as teal 05
BS or Not????
This entire report may be BS, but just a couple comments that do sound believable:
Major Auto Companies DO perform research through the use of focus groups. Some of the research does involve common people driving vehicles, and providing feedback.
His Group: They select people based on different screening techiques. Among the typical income/location factors, they DO sort by vehicle driven, and when purchased. If Ford was going to research, I would expect to see a group of Mustang owners grouped together. There were probably several other groups that ran on different times that comprised older/younger buyers, several groups of competitive owners (RX8, GTO, G35, Z), and maybe even a group biased in gender. They keep them seperated so they can see who it plays with each group.
Paying people: If Ford put up a sign that said "Come drive the Mustang for free", they would get tons of people in. These people are NOT statistically the sample they want. They want "Typical Consumers". To get these people to come to an event (usually 3-4 hours) without telling them exactly what they will be doing, you often have to pay them. And $150 is about right.
Competitive Set: About the right number of vehicles, and a believable mix. If you were going to test the new stang against 3 cars .... who would you have brought?
Camoflouging cars: Sorry, but they do things as simple as tape over badges. Often the cars are borrowed/rented. They don't strip the cars ... and the funny thing is, some people dont even recognize their own make of car. lol. Other's will say things like I like #3 because its a Mustang, BMW, or whatever .... just because it is. Anyway, no other way around that.
Thing I didnt Like: Teal car. Not because of the color availability, but because you never want to introduce another variable into the equation. All the cars should have been the same family of colors, and typically a dark to neutral color .... not teal. Can biase someone's opinion of the car before he/she even drives it.
Anyway ..... may be pure BS, but not for some of the reasons others have listed.
I base my dismissal of the original post not on the likelihood whether or not this event actually happened, but the total lack of credibility regarding the poster's ability to actually critique a car. C'mon, we ALL know people who have spent half their life driving, and wouldn't know a tie rod from a french fry. We all know people who would jump into an RX-8 and shift it at the same shift points they do their diesel Rabbit, and get out of the car saying "man, this thing's slower than my Rabbit!!" Reading this person's blow-by-blow account of his day, I simply got the feeling that I might as well be listening to Jessica Simpson analyze the subtle nuances of doing a 3-angle valve job. He seemed clueless. So maybe this focus group DID happen, but I don't think the report posted here is worth the server space it's occupying.
BTW, If I were invited to participate in a pre-release car-comparison focus group, I would fully expect to be told "NO CAMERAS ALLOWED" by whoever was organizing the study. These types of focus group studies are commonplace, but you NEVER see pictures from them. Add two and two, and what do you get?
Well I know from experience that you do get paid to be in these studies (at least in Detroit). And yes, they test many things from seat comfort comparisons to the car's feel overall. I'm not trying to defend this guy as it could very well be bs, but why is a person always labled a liar before you will label them truthful? And when someone posts pics, you guys will still say, "those pics are photoshopped". Not all of you are like this but many are.
ALright, to start I said the color of the 05 was Teal. I'm not sure if thats the exact Ford color code, so chill. It was a light blue/green shade. It was not the blue/silver shade that Ford had at SEMA last year. Had light tan interior.
Second, I knew exactly what every car was. But, during the testing, the interviewer was not aloud to tell you what the cars were. The first things we rated was the outside of each car.(Each car had a letter, which is how the interviewer referred to it all day) So when we went from car to car, I jokingly said, "Oh, you mean the one that looks a lot like a 350Z, or GTO., etc."
As for this being on another thread, don't know what you're talking about. You can search all my threads. Wasn't me.
pony542 brings some good points. In my group of four was me(28) a guy my age, and two women my age. In the other group of four they were all in their 40s or later.
RICKS, if my report isn't worth the server space, then I guess 25 replies of BS is worth it?? Sorry I didn't get a professional to write up my report.
Also, everyone got bent out of shape because I said the rear-end was loose. Well, compared to the other cars, IT WAS!
To help some of you get the picture, here's what the test was. I'll talk about the whole drive of the 05, and throw in comments about the other cars.
Started on the outside. How do I rate the look of the front end(almost all of it we rated 1-10. Others we rated just about right, too soft, too hard, etc.) How do I rate the side? Rear end? Open the door. How by looking do you rate the comfort of the seat? Quality of the carpet? Have a seat. How do you rate the comfort? Is it too wide, too narrow, just right? How do you rate the gauge cluster? Center console? Passenger console? How is your view out of the mirrors?
(OF course I gave the 05 the highest marks on the exterior. The GTO had the best seats. The rear seats in it were also bolstered. The 05 seats were comfortable, but had very little lateral support. They didn't hold you in like the other 3 seats. The cluster in the 05 was sweet of course. We also got to go through the preset colors. But the test was in the day-time, so they were hard to see .)
Then we started the car. How ws the sound at idle? Too soft, too loud, just right. The 05 idle was was pretty quiet. But it woke up when revved, and definetly still has the Mustang sound. The rx-8 you couldn't hear, I really liked the 350Z for a 6er, and the GTO was probably the loudest. Plus it torqued the car when you revved it up. Then we pulled out. Left the parking lot and pulled up to the curb. How was the braking? Pedal too short, long? etc. Then to the road. The first road we went down was really rough(Agoura Rd. if you interested) He asked about ride. Too stiff, too soft, just about right?
(All four rode about the same. We were only doing 35, so handling wasn't an issue. The 05 and GTO were a little softer over this part. The RX was the worst.)
At the next stop sign, we rolled off across the road and did a full acceleration till you hit 40. He asked about the pickup? Did it feel strong? Was the exhaust too soft, loud, or just right?
(1st I drove the 350Z. And I was surprised by how fast it did this. Really smooth shift right before 40. Next was the GTO. It didn't really do much for me. It sounded nice, but didn't seem right. I'm sure the Auto has something to do with it. The RX-8 was next. It finally got to 40 at a little over 7000 rpm. It ws just starting to get rolling. And lstly the 05. It felt like it had the most pickup. It threw me back the hardest. It seemed to rev quicker than the other cars.)
Next questions, How smooth was the transmission shift? Was it too soon, late, or just right?
( THe Z felt real quick and smooth. The GTO had a lot og lag when I pressed the gas. The shift was a little clunky also. The last two it was funny. Neither the RX or Mustang shifted before 40. I had to let out of the gas on both before they shifted. )
At the next stop sign, he asked about the view out of the sides. How much hood can you see? Front? Rear? etc. Then we turned toward the highway. Was the blinker to loud? Soft? etc. The Mustang one BTW sounds like when you click a Snapple lid. Didn't like it. I have a Focus rental car right now with the same clicker.
When we got on the highway, he asked us to change lanes to the center lane? How was the view out of the mirrors? Did you feel confident changing lanes?
( The Z was really hard to see out of. The Mustang mirrors are big. No problems there. )
Next, he had me slow down to 50, then do a full acceleration and tell him when we got to 70. Again, how was the shift? The Exhaust?
( First I had the Z, it just downshifted and took off. Like I said, I really liked the sound of it. The GTO again took a long time to downshift, but it moved well. The RX, well, yeah. Then the Mustang. It shifted quick and strong. But as soon as I got into it, someone yanked over in front of me(this is the 101 we're on). So I slowed down again and took off. I actually took it closer to 80 before telling him. (There was a guy in an F-150 next to me on the 2nd one, I'm sure he got a kick out of it) The exhaust sounded really nice, but I still said it was too quiet. )
Then we got off the highway toward the canyons. Along the way he asked about the cup holder. Its funny, the RXs cup holders is behind your body. WTF were they thinking? The Zs is also pretty far back. He also at a light aksed about the brakes. Did it take too much pressure to stop? Was the distance you pushed to pedal too far or short?
We did a small canyon road, and turned around on it. On the first pass, he asked about the braking. Too much? Too little? Did you feel confident? etc. Then we turned around in some gravel. Was the suspension too soft? Hard? Right? Then on the way back he asked about the steering? Was it too soft? Did you feel confident? Did it feel in control?
( First was the 350. I took it pretty quick throught the turns. Braked really well, handled almost prefectly. Next was the GTO, it handled alright, but the steering had no feedback. The steering felt more like a Cadillacs. The RX was nice through this.
Lastly the Mustang, and I liked it the least out of the 4. The first pass through I liked the braking. But I kept thinking about how the tail felt loose. We turned around, and back thru. Around some of the bends, there were bumps, and when I drove over those, the rear end kicked around a little. Now the steering was great. It gave a lot of feedback. The wheel is comfy.
To give a final analogy. The other 3 cars felt more like my buddies Stage 2. The Mustang felt more like my Stage 1. )
After the canyon road, he asked about the clusters. Were they easy to read? How about the lighting(which again was pointless since it was sunny out) Climate control? Window buttons? etc.
( Here's where 1 thing I didn't like about the 05. The dash, driver, passenger compartment, etc are all really nice trim. But the radio and climate sontrols are the same black textured plastic Ford always uses. It looked cheap compared to the rest of the stuff. The dash mimicking the 67s crash pads is awesome. The chrome around the guages I really liked. The Shaker stereo is pretty loud. Theres some pretty big speakers in the front doors also )
Next we got back onto the highway. Here we did a full accelaration again. We rolled along at 25 till the bottom of the on-ramp, and then took off to 70 onto the highway. He again asked about the shift, the exhaust, and confidence getting onto the highway.
( The Z I really liked again, except the mirrors. The GTO dropped to first and barked the tires, but its shifts were too clunky. Also I think the exhaust is too soft for an sports car. And it didn't really feel like 350 HP. The RX8 took forever. But it did finally show me some pickup over 7000 rpm, but it took awhile to get there.
Lastly the Mustang. Again, the exhaust is definetly Mustang. A little quiet for my choice, but a good start. The acceleration was the best of the 4. It had the most neck-snapping feel. It shifted hard and real quick. )
On the way back asked about the overall driving experience. When we pulled back in, he had us back the cars in. He asked about the steering. Too hard, easy, right? ALso how was the vision out. The 350Z was bad for this. The interviewer laughed and said it was always the car people hit the cones with.
We got out and he asked how much we thought the car was going to cost? And then give an overall rating.
( With a lot of bias, I rated the 05 as the best overall. Then the Z, The GTO, then the RX. In pure handling, the Z was the best. In looks, the 05 hands down. In accelaration, again the 05. In the interior, I liked the GTOs seats the best. But the 05 inside is so nice. I said I thought the Mustang would cost 32,000. )
After, we went inside to fill out a few more questions. One was " Would a price of 28,995 for car W(the 05) seem too high, low, or just right?" I liked that. I finished the questions, turned them in and they handed me an envelope. Inside, a 100 dollar bill, two twenties, and two fives.
This took me an hour to write. Maybe now you won't doubt my crediblity, becuase the first time I posted it I was in a hurry, and didn't write it up to some people standards. I don't work for Primedia.
Now, any real questions?
Yes it was a 350Z. And yes they had tape over everything on the cars. It was ironic when they asked about the GTOs guages, I said of course they're hard to read, you have tape over them.
I just looked at that post. And to rest assure some doubt, thats not me. I own an 02 Roush Stage 1 and a 1967 Coupe. They are the only two Mustangs I've owned. And I use the name 02roush on here, fnsweet, stangsource, corral, and whitefm. It sounds like the guy on there was in the same tests as me. They ran a few groups each day. Someone should ask him where he did this. (mine was at the Renaisance Hotel in Agoura Hills, CA. Reyes Adobe exit off the 101)
What would that be?
And I'll say it again, we weren't aloud to take a camera.
Well as soon as I read the part about a teal 05 I was wondering what the heck that was about, lol and I'm niave and will believe anything most of the time
In my test group, the 05 was the tealish color, and the other 3 were all silver.
In the other group, all four cars were black.
Maybe I'm calling the 05 the wrong color, but it was a blue/green/silverish color. Thats how I would describe it.
They were all autos?? The automatic RX8 is lower h.p. than the 6-speed, and shifts at 7500 rpm. The 6-speed redlines at 9000 rpm. The high-rev characteristic of a rotary motor is simply not suited to an auto slushbox. That would explain alot of your dissatisfaction with that car, I read somewhere I think that over 90% of the RX8 sales have been 6-speeds. All of the cars tested, with the exception of the GT, have IRS. Yes, bumps in a corner will disturb the solid-axle GT more than the IRS others. We've beaten the pros-cons of IRS vs. solid axle to DEATH here. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Mustang is "loose". As I stated before, it has to do with suspension tuning. My mom owns a new 6-speed 350Z. It handles wonderfully, but in the corners it's set up a bit to the safe-side, meaning it understeers and pushes a bit. This inspires a bit more confidence to average drivers, and would give you the impression that the tail is "planted". But it's got some push dialed into it, and it's a compromise. I've heard the same criticism of the GTO. The RX8's handling is SUPPOSED to be almost neutral, and just about perfect. No under or oversteer, just balance. I HOPE that the GT is tuned to be just a touch oversteer-ish. That puts the cornering control in the hands (and right foot) of the driver, which will cause hamfisted drivers to get sideways if they don't know what they're doing. So basically the fact that the rear end was a bit jumpy in a bumpy corner compared to those other cars is something that is no big surprise, and is not necessarily a "bad" thing. It means that you can steer the car in a corner with the throttle, which is how most exotics play the game.