BlackVert
15 Year Member
DSS or CHP?
- Thread starter 93GTWannabe
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About using the stock oem block.
For a street mostly application ..............
As long as the rpms are kept within reasonable limits ...........
I don't have a prob with it at all.
Got the same peace of mind if talking about 347 strokers.
btw ... that steep rod ratio stuff is true
The thing that gets my dander up about that is
Its no different than two other topics we used talk about over and over
on this very site
1) 373's are too steep
2) the cobra pcm sucks
We talked for around two years
about both of those topics before peeps finally started to acutally do some research for themselves instead of
listening to their bud ... he had no clue as well!
believing some mag article ... unbiased info? ... NOT
just taking internet bs at face value
Now a days ..............
On this site you see peeps asking about ......
should they use 373's or 410's
and
some actually are seeking a Cobra pcm to use
Whats my point in posting up this stuff???
373's are too steep ... however
the Cobra pcm does suck ... however
347 has a steep rod ratio ... however
Its all about the however thing ................
Until peeps look to see if any fact might have however conditions
they are choosing to stay in the dark
and
they are guilty of spreading internet myth
A 347 stroker has a steep rod ratio ... however
You can find factory built production oem motors with as steep or steeper rod ratios
Now ask yourself ..... hummmmm ...........
I wonder if that info might cause me to ...........
consider a different way of thinking
other
than just going along with the masses
Is this the picture you see in your mind
A bunch of highly trained, highly paid, engineers and high level decision makers all sitting around some big conference table at Ford, Chrysler, or GM. The topic of discussion is a motor to use for one of their production cars that will be made for years.
They see this particular motor has a rod ratio of bla bla bla and it will have a life span shorter than the typical motor that is used.
They all look at each other and say ... "thats not an issue"
That ain't the pic I see
Grady
For a street mostly application ..............
As long as the rpms are kept within reasonable limits ...........
I don't have a prob with it at all.
Got the same peace of mind if talking about 347 strokers.
btw ... that steep rod ratio stuff is true
The thing that gets my dander up about that is
Its no different than two other topics we used talk about over and over
on this very site1) 373's are too steep
2) the cobra pcm sucks
We talked for around two years
about both of those topics before peeps finally started to acutally do some research for themselves instead oflistening to their bud ... he had no clue as well!
believing some mag article ... unbiased info? ... NOT
just taking internet bs at face value
Now a days ..............
On this site you see peeps asking about ......
should they use 373's or 410's
and
some actually are seeking a Cobra pcm to use
Whats my point in posting up this stuff???
373's are too steep ... however
the Cobra pcm does suck ... however
347 has a steep rod ratio ... however
Its all about the however thing ................
Until peeps look to see if any fact might have however conditions
they are choosing to stay in the dark
and
they are guilty of spreading internet myth
A 347 stroker has a steep rod ratio ... however
You can find factory built production oem motors with as steep or steeper rod ratios
Now ask yourself ..... hummmmm ...........
I wonder if that info might cause me to ...........
consider a different way of thinking
other
than just going along with the masses
Is this the picture you see in your mind
A bunch of highly trained, highly paid, engineers and high level decision makers all sitting around some big conference table at Ford, Chrysler, or GM. The topic of discussion is a motor to use for one of their production cars that will be made for years.
They see this particular motor has a rod ratio of bla bla bla and it will have a life span shorter than the typical motor that is used.
They all look at each other and say ... "thats not an issue"
That ain't the pic I see
Grady
mustangt562
Member
93GTWannabe said:
Actually I have heard of a crapload of people who dont like DSS. Do a search homeboy.
mustangt562
Member
VibrantRedGT said:Its a good theory but total BS. I've read the internet 347 myths on here for 7 years now. And still going........
Actually I dont know why us with 347's bother. Let the 331 folks get ripped off because of a myth. From what I have read if you try to help and teach them a thing or two they are just going to have another excuse/reason. So I say if they wanna pay the same price as a bigger engine for a smaller one.....Let them and laugh. As for me I am very happy with my 347 CHP Street Fighter Pro Street!!!
mustangt562
Member
Car Nut said:
You just described my car exactly except I have a performer intake not a rpm
CHP street fighter pro street 347, .509/.532 222/232 (112), AFR 185cc x 61cc, all forged internals, 10:1, main girdle, windage tray, MSD ignition/dizzy/wires/coil, fluidyne rad, canton overflow, ceramic bbk shorty headers, 3.73, 30lb squirt, 255 fuel pump, c&l true flow pipe, 90mm lmaf, edelbrock performer intake ported lower, flowcooler highflow waterpump, romac 28oz balancer, underdriven crank pully, oil/tranny coolers, new ac pump/hoses/accumulator, 200amp alt, plx m-300 wideband o2 air/fuel monitor, autometer phantom oil temp/oil pressure/tranny temp/water temp, transgo shift kit, b&M deep tranny pan, 70mm tb, bbk intake spacer, high volume oil pump, magnaflow h-pipe with highflow cats, flowmasters, autopower 4 point, kirban adjustable fpr, subframe connectors, aluminum wire looms, aluminum driveshaft, tokico shocks, thats about all I can think of right now.
About the OEM engines with steeper ratios...how many of them get the same mileage at the same average as a stock 5.0L. Name the "400cu." GM engine that consistently hits that mileage.
I want to see what I am spreading that is untrue. Someone show me instead of saying I am.
I said the 347 has a steeper ratio. And it does.
I said a 331 has more piston material than a 347 piston. And it does.
A 331 is different. And it is.
What else?
I want to see what I am spreading that is untrue. Someone show me instead of saying I am.
I said the 347 has a steeper ratio. And it does.
I said a 331 has more piston material than a 347 piston. And it does.
A 331 is different. And it is.
What else?
The comparison is not about 302 to 331/347
The comparison is about how ........
331 is accepted as the hot chit for a stroker
but
347 not suitable unless you rarely drive it
or
use is sparingly
or
put just a few miles on it ... 1/4 at a time
The rod ratio does indeed gets worse ...........
no matter if we are talking about 331 or 347
No one has ever said, or as least that is how I see it, the rod ratio is all that good on a 347.
What has been said over AND over is this ......
The ratio on the 347 is not that much worse than on the 331
Perhaps you prefer it said like this ..............
The ratio on the 331 is better than the 347 .........
end of discussion ... lets don't talk about it any more
Just like Vibe pointed out
Same O ... Same O ... chit
The sky is falling ... The sky is falling
Just as you pointed out earlier in this thread ............
The BAD rod ratio of 347's are exaggerated
How much is it exaggerated ... I can't know for sure
but
it is too dam much
Lets get real here ................
Most peeps who build 331's or 347's don't use them to get groceries in anyway.
Draw 300-325rwhp from a stock blocked oem combo by installing h/c/i with all supporting parts and you have shortened the life of that motor
Maybe all the young peeps and noobs don't know stuff like that
but
there are a good bit of us who do
I just don't wanna unintentionally mislead peeps.
We see stuff all the time like ... I want to put 500rwhp on my Stang. Can I put on h/c/i and blower to make that happen? We inquire a bit more and find this guy drives his Stang to school and its the only car hes got.
I tire from this futile effort
I've got a solution
at least for me 
that will work
About a year ago, I decided I had wasted far too much of my time trying to help peeps see the all the issues of retro-fitting older fox pcm's in our cars.
I stopped posting in those kinds of threads and started to just point them to older threads I had done. Why not ... its the same stuff! ... Valid info then is Valid info now.
I've just made the same decision about this 331/347 topic
One last thing here and I'm immediatley unsubscribing from this thread
If nothing else, our discussion might cause some to research
Ya'll hash it out
I ain't wasting anymore time typing
Grady
The comparison is about how ........
331 is accepted as the hot chit for a stroker
but
347 not suitable unless you rarely drive it
or
use is sparingly
or
put just a few miles on it ... 1/4 at a time
The rod ratio does indeed gets worse ...........
no matter if we are talking about 331 or 347
No one has ever said, or as least that is how I see it, the rod ratio is all that good on a 347.
What has been said over AND over is this ......
The ratio on the 347 is not that much worse than on the 331
Perhaps you prefer it said like this ..............
The ratio on the 331 is better than the 347 .........
end of discussion ... lets don't talk about it any more
Just like Vibe pointed out
Same O ... Same O ... chit
The sky is falling ... The sky is falling
Just as you pointed out earlier in this thread ............
The BAD rod ratio of 347's are exaggerated
How much is it exaggerated ... I can't know for sure
but
it is too dam much
Lets get real here ................
Most peeps who build 331's or 347's don't use them to get groceries in anyway.
Draw 300-325rwhp from a stock blocked oem combo by installing h/c/i with all supporting parts and you have shortened the life of that motor
Maybe all the young peeps and noobs don't know stuff like that
but
there are a good bit of us who do
I just don't wanna unintentionally mislead peeps.
We see stuff all the time like ... I want to put 500rwhp on my Stang. Can I put on h/c/i and blower to make that happen? We inquire a bit more and find this guy drives his Stang to school and its the only car hes got.
I tire from this futile effort
I've got a solution
at least for me that will work About a year ago, I decided I had wasted far too much of my time trying to help peeps see the all the issues of retro-fitting older fox pcm's in our cars.
I stopped posting in those kinds of threads and started to just point them to older threads I had done. Why not ... its the same stuff! ... Valid info then is Valid info now.
I've just made the same decision about this 331/347 topic
One last thing here and I'm immediatley unsubscribing from this thread
If nothing else, our discussion might cause some to research
Ya'll hash it out
I ain't wasting anymore time typing
Grady
I'm not asking anyone whether to go with a 331 or a 347, I'm asking about two company's... 2 company's whom i have no previous expierence with, I'm going 331... the only person than can change my mind is my best friend, and thats merely because he and his dad have been building badass cars since before he could walk... I do not owe anyone my reasoning behind a 331 and not a 347, i appreciate the back and fourth, but i know what i want, and why i want it... all i want from you guys is info about the two company's. if you got an info regarding them, i'm all ears, otherwise you are just wasting your time... thank you for the help you've given me up to this point, and the help you'll give me from here on out.
If what you are looking for is a rotaing assembly ONLY, then why are limiting your choices to CHP and DSS? What about eagle and Scat? I got my Scat rotating assembly from Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com My experience with Kevin has been nothing but top notch. His pricing and service are unmatched from my experience. If your looking to have someone other than your friend build it, then check out Rick at http://www.rnhperformance.com He assembled and balanced my dart block based shortblock. He is another TOP NOTCH guy to deal with and is a true engine BUILDER, not just an assembler.
you and a9l's sounds like me as far as the aode - t5 swap goes. apparently the search function only works properly for a select few of us. as far as the thing about 500hp goes on someones only car, that makes me laugh. my car wasnt reliable enough to be a daily driver at the 400hp mark much less any higher. as far as the 331 goes, my other reason was that i am going to be making block splitting power without the extra cubes so why not have a little less aggressive ratios inside the motor regardless of whether or not it would have any effect on longevity. but then again, its a totally different game once you add a power adder to the equation. to be honest, i kind of regret not selling the blower and going with a 10.0:1 compression 347. joe's car rips with his setup.final5-0 said:We see stuff all the time like ... I want to put 500rwhp on my Stang. Can I put on h/c/i and blower to make that happen? We inquire a bit more and find this guy drives his Stang to school and its the only car hes got.
I tire from this futile effort
I've got a solution
About a year ago, I decided I had wasted far too much of my time trying to help peeps see the all the issues of retro-fitting older fox pcm's in our cars.
I stopped posting in those kinds of threads and started to just point them to older threads I had done. Why not ... its the same stuff! ... Valid info then is Valid info now.
I've just made the same decision about this 331/347 topic
One last thing here and I'm immediatley unsubscribing from this thread
If nothing else, our discussion might cause some to research
Ya'll hash it out
I ain't wasting anymore time typing
Grady
Honestly I have heard alot of people having issues with themustangt562 said:
D.S.S. short blocks.Also I have had people come up to me
and tell me that D.S.S.s' customer service is the worst.They
said they were even rude to them over the phone.Personaly
I would never give them my business.CHP is very reputable
and has great customer service skills I should know because
one of my good friends purchased a engine from them and he
was very pleased with the service.
The best of luck with your purchase though.
Car Nut
Founding Member
mustangt562 said:You just described my car exactly except I have a performer intake not a rpm
CHP street fighter pro street 347, .509/.532 222/232 (112), AFR 185cc x 61cc, all forged internals, 10:1, main girdle, windage tray, MSD ignition/dizzy/wires/coil, fluidyne rad, canton overflow, ceramic bbk shorty headers, 3.73, 30lb squirt, 255 fuel pump, c&l true flow pipe, 90mm lmaf, edelbrock performer intake ported lower, flowcooler highflow waterpump, romac 28oz balancer, underdriven crank pully, oil/tranny coolers, new ac pump/hoses/accumulator, 200amp alt, plx m-300 wideband o2 air/fuel monitor, autometer phantom oil temp/oil pressure/tranny temp/water temp, transgo shift kit, b&M deep tranny pan, 70mm tb, bbk intake spacer, high volume oil pump, magnaflow h-pipe with highflow cats, flowmasters, autopower 4 point, kirban adjustable fpr, subframe connectors, aluminum wire looms, aluminum driveshaft, tokico shocks, thats about all I can think of right now.
Awesome! Thanks for posting your setup.
That's the way I'm really leaning........the 347. Emissions will be met and I don't think it will be that big of a headache to accomplish. Cost? Well, I think it would be comparable or cheaper than getting a new 306 crate-type CHP setup along with a Kenne Belle. I'm not considering a rebuild at all, just a total replacement of the block and h/c/i with forged internals. Just want to get it done right the first time and even though a little overkill, I want my "street" engine to last 100K miles.
CHP gets my vote. I'm keeping up on this topic a lot, but mostly with complete engine setups. DSS is good, but there have been a few bad experiences on here.
blksn955.o
Founding Member
Your going to have bad things with both if not for the volume the sell and not everyone does the install/engine breakin correctly once they get the product (not saying every failure is due to end user but I think you get my drift). Someone on here and/or hardcore said something along the lines..."how many people FIRST HAND have something to say about a product listen to what they have to say over someone who had a buddies neighbors cousins sisters boyfriend 3 states away"
I am VERY pleased with my DSS shortblock. The parts looked great assem. everything had APR hardware. With a std. volume oil pump I see 55-60psi cold startup, 45-50psi warm and 70-75psi at anything over 1,500-2k rpm. I have every confidence I could spin this thing to 7k rpm (but the block wouldnt like that I am sure )
Anderson Ford Motorsports IIRC uses DSS only. I am in NO way knocking CHP either like I said it came down to shipping for me and what I thought was a very comperable product. If I was going with an aftermarket block and higher end rotating assem. (forged crank) I would 100% also look at the links killer posted.
In the end I like to remember this though. Parts only know how they are installed and not what name is on them.
I am VERY pleased with my DSS shortblock. The parts looked great assem. everything had APR hardware. With a std. volume oil pump I see 55-60psi cold startup, 45-50psi warm and 70-75psi at anything over 1,500-2k rpm. I have every confidence I could spin this thing to 7k rpm (but the block wouldnt like that I am sure
)Anderson Ford Motorsports IIRC uses DSS only. I am in NO way knocking CHP either like I said it came down to shipping for me and what I thought was a very comperable product. If I was going with an aftermarket block and higher end rotating assem. (forged crank) I would 100% also look at the links killer posted.
In the end I like to remember this though. Parts only know how they are installed and not what name is on them.
Grn92LX said:
My friends dad IS building it, i'm looking for JUST the Rotating Assembly, UNLESS i can find a kickass deal on a shortblock.
as for the Question about why just DSS and CHP, and not Eagle or Scat... when i posted this originally, i didn't think about them. if you have a suggestion about a company other than the one's that have already been mentioned i'm all ears.
final50 - I greatly respect your opinion, because you do not lose control when debating something.
but, I see things a bit different...
I see things as the "347 is the hot chit to get"...not the 331...so it is seen as "unpopular" and slow, when dyno after dyno have shown very little differences.
Either way you say doesnt' matter to me...
331 has a better rod ratio than a 347, or the 347 has a worse ratio.
I would hope some on here would actually realize who is being "bias" and who is not.
I respect opinions a lot when it comes from those maybe not actually suggesting the part on their car. Thinking they have the best...when in reality...they have what they think is best.
I have seen some 347 guys and builders saying how there is nothing wrong with a 331 and both strokers would be great options for a build-up. I love that.
What I upon is "go 347 or your slow"...LOL. Because it simply is bias for their own reasons and irrational.
A 347 isn't for everyone, a 331 isn't for everyone.
What I see lots of times is how those that have a 331 in their sig, or a some other different motor, they get shunned by being told they are "unintelligent" and all that mess. I mean, "what the crap"?
Things get exxagerated about 331's as well. They are "slow", "useless", etc...
Welp, I guess so are the 302's. If you don't have a 1.59" rod ratio...then you are slow and stupid for picking what you picked.
but, I see things a bit different...
I see things as the "347 is the hot chit to get"...not the 331...so it is seen as "unpopular" and slow, when dyno after dyno have shown very little differences.
Either way you say doesnt' matter to me...
331 has a better rod ratio than a 347, or the 347 has a worse ratio.
I would hope some on here would actually realize who is being "bias" and who is not.
I respect opinions a lot when it comes from those maybe not actually suggesting the part on their car. Thinking they have the best...when in reality...they have what they think is best.
I have seen some 347 guys and builders saying how there is nothing wrong with a 331 and both strokers would be great options for a build-up. I love that.
What I
upon is "go 347 or your slow"...LOL. Because it simply is bias for their own reasons and irrational.A 347 isn't for everyone, a 331 isn't for everyone.
What I see lots of times is how those that have a 331 in their sig, or a some other different motor, they get shunned by being told they are "unintelligent" and all that mess. I mean, "what the crap"?
Things get exxagerated about 331's as well. They are "slow", "useless", etc...
Welp, I guess so are the 302's. If you don't have a 1.59" rod ratio...then you are slow and stupid for picking what you picked.
93GTWannabe said:
http://www.scatcrankshafts.com
http://www.eaglerod.com
Although you are likely to find a lot of helpful information here, you will find more at http://www.hardcore50.com on the subject of scat versus eagle. I did my own research and went with Scat. Here's a result of a quick search I did on scat versus eagle on hardcore.
http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20082&highlight=scat+quality
Since you are buying a rotating assembly only, definitely do yourself a favor and call Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com before you buy anything. He can supply ANYTHING you'll need to get this thing together, his customer service is second to none as well as his prices.
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