Dyno Comprison LS1 vrs 5.0 Combos

[blksn955.o]

One thing I always seem to remember about the mustang/f-body debate.

If you look at the avg. cars threwout this debate (excluding the zl1, copo, and 429 stuff). The mustang has in most cases had less power or close to the same power. You look at track times and the mustang generally has about the same or better 1/4 numbers.

In the late 60's early 70's the mustang was a very good runner for what it had and with alittle mods woke up nice (from what I hear from older guys...no offense grady)

The fox's straight up dominated the chevy's year for year, the 94-95 was chevy's win, and the 96-98 DOHC mustangs were close with the 99+4v's running just as many low 13's as the ls guys...then the 03-04's had no compitition and were even badder.

Then killed chevy in sales with less power

In the end I like to say "doing more with less for 40+ yrs".

P.S. I am not really one to be the "Ford only" or "die hard Chevy guy" or insane "mopar nut". I like all of them...just ford alittle more.

 

[go-stang5.0]

Dammit I knew I bought the wrong motor...

I dunno if any of you guys remember Numbles...had a black vert maybe grady might remember (he stopped coming on after he wrecked his car)..but yea hes got a ls1 in a fox notchback now (and no he didn't buy it like that), its pretty fun.

For me...I'd like to find me a nice air cooled 911 or an svo mustang as a second car when I graduate from school.

 

[Pokageek]

I am not a pure Ford, chevy ..whatever. I like em all too! Just ford a little better.

 

[final5-0]

OK Folks

As promised ... I have included 94mustangcobra's 347 in our little thread
of discussion we have going here

I wanted to do so since he has a block that has the same amount of
cubes as the LS1

and

Some of his other parts are not what one would call the most optimum
for a 347 Stroker

I think it might open some peeps eyes just a bit

Hope some of you find it interesting

btw ... I just added him on to the above existing chart to make the
whole process less work for me

Grady

 

[reddy351]

Subscribing!!!! 94mustangcobra's combo is exactly what I was looking for! It is a really "nice little combo" that should be very inexpensive to reproduce. (Some JY Explorer heads and intake. A $900 347 kit. You don't NEED to spend $6k on an engine.)

With doing most of the work yourself and doing some "shopping" for the ancillary parts (MAF,TB,Injectors), you could prolly get in under $2k, for the whole deal. Then a tune of some sort and you've got a pretty hot little car for not a lot o money. (And no car payment!) Plus, your 13 year old Stang might just suprise a couple of those Bowtie Guys. All the while enjoying the attributes that brought us all to Mustangs in the first place. (Build quality, interior comfort, looks, ease of maintenance, etc.)

 

[HankyGT]

Dug this one up for you... Decent comparo between a healthy 347 and your usual 'bolt on' ls1.

Just thought this might be interesting.

TA -
LS6 Intake stock
Cam only - Vindicator - .608/.598 240/244 110+4
1 3/4 LT headers
Ypipe Flowmaster merge
Flowmaster catback (bigger series mufflers)
Bo White TB
Gran MAS
42lb inj.
TR55 plugs
Chumma tune


Mustang - 347 - H/C/I 11:01 comp
N-113 cam @.50 .576/.576 270/278 108
AFR 205 heads box stock 308/231 cfm at .600
Victor JR intak port matched
BG 750 carb
CHP 347 rotating assembly
Comp 1.6 rockers
MSD 6al and blaster coil
MAc 1 3/4 LT headers
3 inch powerchamber hpipe
3 inch Mac dumped exhaust


Both cars dynoed through manual trannies and 8.8's (the same 8.8 lol) and 410 gears.

TA in Blue, Mustang in Red

 

[HankyGT]

Same guy owns both cars fwiw.....

The stang being a gutted fox racecar is faster....T/A is a full weight car, but it's food for thought.

 

[Pokageek]

LS has a huge cam compared to the 347 BUT why does it put out so much more low end?

 

[HankyGT]

Prolly cause of the tighter LSA on the stang makes it topendy

 

[HankyGT]

Generally from what I've seen, the LS engines like alot of cam.

 

[final5-0]

Well Keith

I don't see this latest example as fair of a comparison as the earlier one
with John's 347 where both are fuel injected.

Go back and look at that one ... just one more time

I'd think things would look very different if John had some 185's

Since the 347 here has a carb ... he most likely will not be as efficient down
low as opposed to him being fi

It seems to me, Chevy has done a nice job with the LS1

I kinda look at it as a way to buy a factory hot rod
and
It is already equipped with aftermarket go fast parts

If one wants to run a sbf Ford ... and have a comparable motor ...
You just gotta stroke to 347
and
Build your own with aftermarket parts

Either way ... you got 350 cubes with decent supporting parts

One could go to a Windsor ... as well
but
Most are gonna go beyond 350 cubes for all that trouble

Again the whole intent of this thread was ...........
While the LS1 is very nice
It's not as untouchable as some make it seem to be on these boards

Tell you what Keith

Look at my little ... mild mannered ... Clark Kent ... combo

It ain't all that far behind our example LS1

That is with me using ...
Stock throttle body, maf, & catback
also
Catted H Pipe
also
All emissions equipment in place & functional

And never forget
I even spotted him 50 cubes :Word:

I mean ... his biggest advantage is low end tq from 2200 to 2800
after all ...
One can only over come so much with 50 less cubes

Grady

 

[RAD]

LS1s have coil packs and we distributors. Which one can help yield more horses?

 

[final5-0]

LS1s have coil packs and we distributors. Which one can help yield more horses?

My gut tells me ... If the 94-95 OEM ignition is in good working order

It would not be at much ... if any ...disadvantage to those coil packs

Grady

 

[onlyme]

final 5-0 sent you a pm, might help with some of ur dyno data.

 

[5spd GT]

Nice chatting going on and interesting comparisons

I will say, as I have said before. With a camshaft, bolt-ons, and full exhaust, the ls1 is putting out well over 400 rwhp.

This is with a STOCK intake and STOCK heads.

Now imagine changing THEM out

I personally have not seen a 347 make the same power as the 346 ls1, with as close to equal variables between them.

Keeping in mind:

- Powerband
- Goals
- Belt Driven Accessories

I still would rather drive a mustang though, but the ls1 is not to shabby of a platform.

The ls1 parts are pretty expensive, if you actually get into the real aftermarket parts.

 

[Pokageek]

Nice chatting going on and interesting comparisons

I will say, as I have said before. With a camshaft, bolt-ons, and full exhaust, the ls1 is putting out well over 400 rwhp.

This is with a STOCK intake and STOCK heads.

Now imagine changing THEM out

I personally have not seen a 347 make the same power as the 346 ls1, with as close to equal variables between them.

Keeping in mind:

- Powerband
- Goals
- Belt Driven Accessories

I still would rather drive a mustang though, but the ls1 is not to shabby of a platform.

The ls1 parts are pretty expensive, if you actually get into the real aftermarket parts.

Are we reading the same thread? The 347 stroker can most DEFINITELY put out as much as the LSx h/c/i as indicated in earlier dyno sheet here. Put the right h/c/i on it and it will be the same. Strip them both down and they are just shortblocks with cubic inches like any other motor and then it comes down to c.i. I seriously dont see the truth in the myth. You can get a 347 to put down over 400rwhp just the same.

 

[final5-0]

The LS1 has purpose built parts from Chevy ... do they not

While they are OEM ... just look at their effectiveness

Seems to me they are WAY more effective than OEM 5.0 parts

Let me put it this way

They are pretty close to what us 5.0 folk call aftermarket as I see it :Word:

Let me just ask for opinions here

Am I being unfair to compare a 302, 331, or 347 with aftermarket
street combo parts to the Stock LS1 with its OEM supporting parts?

Lets so not go off on some power trip here ...
and
Lets do stick to a typical Street Car Application

Fair enough

I was under the impression Chevy started out with a blank sheet with
the LS1 and I have seen so many say what a fine job they did.

Again ... I have no doubt the LS1 can crank out mucho power with
aftermarket parts

anyway ... I await your input to my Question

This just might get interesting

Grady

 

[5spd GT]

Are we reading the same thread? The 347 stroker can most DEFINITELY put out as much as the LSx h/c/i as indicated in earlier dyno sheet here. Put the right h/c/i on it and it will be the same. Strip them both down and they are just shortblocks with cubic inches like any other motor and then it comes down to c.i. I seriously dont see the truth in the myth. You can get a 347 to put down over 400rwhp just the same.

Yep, we are reading the same thread It is a good one...

Of course a 347 can hit over 400rwhp, but I have not seen many , if any at all hit 400 rwhp with AFR 165's and similar parts to match.

The ls1 is hitting well over 400 rwhp with stock heads (similar to AFR 165's), and a stock intake and full accessories

The 347's with over 400 rwhp, all have larger heads than the ls1, larger camshafts, and I am not to sure on the intake and a comparison between it. I will have to look into that sometime later.

I never questioned that the 347 could hit 400 rwhp Pokageek, but I see ls1's doing more with less, rather than the other way around. There are TONS of h/c ls1's with over 450 rwhp. I do not see to many 347's strapping down that kind of power on a chassis dyno with the same type compression/powerband/accessories as the ls1 combinations out there.

But hey, I love the 331 and 347 and they both can get you moving in a hurry

Grady - Nope, I think your comparison graphs are great because you provide so many varieties for us to put together. Keep it up...

Anyways, off to study

 

[onlyme]

The LS1 heads though have 200cc intake 170cc exhaust 2.00 intake valves, 1.55 exhaust valves, and flow around 230/179 @ 600" also a 10:1 CR

It would be neat to see a 347 with the same compression, heads that flow close to the same as the LS1's,and with similar cam profiles,and induction, to see who comes out on top.

 

[5spd GT]

The LS1 heads though have 200cc intake 170cc exhaust 2.00 intake valves, 1.55 exhaust valves, and flow around 230/179 @ 600" also a 10:1 CR

It would be neat to see a 347 with the same compression, heads that flow close to the same as the LS1's,and with similar cam profiles,and induction, to see who comes out on top.

170cc on the exhaust?

That is what I was pointing out onlyme. I have seen heads that flow and perform similar to a stock set of ls1's, with more aggressive cams and more compression, less accessories, and still come short of an ls1 with a camshaft, longtubes, bolt-ons, (daily driven grind) and stock intake/heads, however good they are.