Eclipse vs Mustang

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by muztang2k3, Oct 6, 2003.

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eclipse or mustang

  1. Eclipse

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  2. Mustang

    80 vote(s)
    70.2%
  3. 2004 solara

    2 vote(s)
    1.8%
  4. Yo Mama

    22 vote(s)
    19.3%
  5. toyota sprinter trueno

    2 vote(s)
    1.8%
  1. TwinTurboRT

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    Crankwalk is ONLY a 2nd gen issue- they have weaker internals anyway.

    Most of your oil issues and leaks are caused by one simple thing- aftermarket pcv valve.

    There is an item- GOD SEND for ANY blown/turbo car - KRANKVENT www.krankvent.com - here's the quickie

    The PCV is a one way valve, typically connected to your intake tract- vacuum pulls the oil mist out right? Well, most guys with n/a motors just disconnect- say atmosphere is an old hot rodder trick and are done with it.

    There is more than a few problems with this- but the main one comes with forced induction- pressurizing the cylinder before the compression stroke increases blowby which will actually pressurize the crankcase- anyone who deals a lot with engines can tell you that positive pressure behind the rings means oil contamination, poor sealing and reduced power. Now add to the mix high boost pressure, problems with detonation - you'll go boom...

    So you don't disconnect the pcv tube- what do you do? Most everyone has found on DSM's and any FI car using a pcv - that most pcv springs can't handle over about 5psi (most wastegates are 6-8psi - meaning minimum boost you can run). So what happens is with you pcv connected- you bleed your boost thru the pcv valve and into the crankcase!

    That's why you get people who can't keep a FI car together- the little things that don't mean crap on n/a mean TONS on forced induction. In terms of reliabilty and prevention of detonation- the krankvent with a catch can is about perfect- and any blown or turbo (or even juiced) stangs might do well to look into it.

    You can go on and on about a type of vehicles reliability- but most of it comes down to the maintenence- and therefore the person who owns it- if you switched to synth from dyno on your turbo car- you run higher chance of leaks, if you didn't switch to synth on your driveline fluids you risk breakage, if you just turn boost up without monitoring knock, a/f (on a wideband), EGT - you go boom.

    There is more to know about the FI AWD cars- knowing it- means you can have a 12 second $3000 car (including purchase price) that runs crap radials and manages it on 93 octane- I dunno about you, but that's not shabby.

    My personal cars ran mid 13's stock, with a couple hundred in them ran low 13's, the Stealth ran LOWLOW 12's (high 11's if I had driven better) and all of them had over 100,000 miles on turbos, trannys, t/c, motors (never had the valve covers off either). I put 50,000 miles a year on these cars- don't say reliability isn't there. I just hope the mustang makes it after it's not so solid start :(

    It's simply a matter of where you want power, how much you have to spend, and what you like.
     
    #21
  2. QDRHRSE

    QDRHRSE New Member

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    Mustang vs Eclipse

    From a non-technical point of view I'd have to say I agree with twinturboRT. Back in the day, Mid 90's, a close friend bough an AWD Eclipse turbo. We were die hard street racers at the time. We put exhaust and an adjustable wastegate and some other junk, about $1200 worth, and the car was going 12.70's. On the street I could barely beat it by a couple cars with my 11 second mustang. We made a lot of money with that eclipse. AWD is sick on the street. Even if you launch em on the rev limiter they only spin the tires for 10 feet and then they are gone. Despite this bonanza of performance my friend went back to a Mustang after a year. Whoever made the comment about asking guys on stangnet what to buy was very insightful. If you are looking for recommendations for anything other than a mustang you should probably ask people that chat on a website that is not dedicated to any brand or particular model.
     
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  3. ArtMan

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    Can I jump in and ask a stupid quetion?
    What does DSM mean?
     
    #23
  4. TwinTurboRT

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    Diamond Star Motors - a joint venture between Chrysler/Mitsu that resulted in the Eagle Talon, Mitsu Eclipse, and Chrysler Laser, also the Mitsu Galant VR4.

    They share the same common drivetrain- tranny, t/c (if AWD), 2.0L 4G63 DOHC, or 1.8L (wuss), Mitsubishi TD05 Based turbo (if turbo model - Automatics until 94 got a 13G TD05 (although it's more than half TD04), while Manual's got the 14B TD05 (difference in flow - 360 vs 405cfm)- 2nd generation received the T25 (T2small) which is rated at like 325 or 315), and common ecu/ignition setup - Distributorless ignition, 2 coil packs, knock sensor, relatively poor ECU maps :)

    Good enough to start with? :D
     
    #24
  5. Burningwick

    Burningwick New Member

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    One of the things that has been mentioned already is that of reliability; and it is something to really consider. I wouldn't bring this up about just any car. Also, check out how much these cars cost to get repaired. It is a LOT more than a Mustang. They have their positives but those are two definite negatives to be considered.
     
    #25
  6. ArtMan

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    Thanks, TT RT

    I recall Lee Iacoacca (sp) had his hand in that one. I also remember an article in an auto mag in the mid 90's that called the Chrysler Laser (not sure; it was the sister car to the eclipse) the "Best Bang for the Buck" then.

    No one can deny that when properly modded they can GLH.
     
    #26
  7. TwinTurboRT

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    I do have to admit that I can't quite be called totally unbiased- I don't let others work on my vehicles, and since I do the work on eclipses- I find it quite easy- should you start paying someone to do it- yeah, you could probably get money.

    I of course would suggest that you just learn the car cause they aren't that hard... but that's me (I could swap a fuel pump, maf, injectors, fpr, turbo and plugs/wires faster than you could do heads/cam on a mustang ;)

    Reliability though really goes back to maintenence, and I know of more than one DSM owner that STARTED modding at over 100K miles to have 40-80,000 miles of high boosting and street launches without anything major going wrong.
    Course again, these are well maintained cars that were built smart and right.

    Edit- GLH? :D I owned a Turbo II LeBaron for a while- THAT'S a sleeper! Those Omni GLH and GLHS are amazing! Any 2.2L with a TurboII designation is intercooled, with a Garrett 50 trim T3 2.5" swingvalve... - long and short- capable of 28psi on the stock turbo :D
     
    #27
  8. SuperStang83

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    I gotta agree with some of the guys, 1st Gens do look a lot better! At least a lot less girly!

    I was watching a Turbo Lebaron at the track a few weeks ago and he was running 12.2's. I was impressed and would have loved that for a sleeper!

    Jakob
     
    #28
  9. stoney

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    Eagle Talon Turbo AWD eh..

    I suppose the AWD is good, but other then that its a 4cylinder turbo. In its own respect it is fast.

    A stock ETT AWD witha 5spd does the quarter in 15.1

    Now by the sounds of it your lookin to make somethin fast for relatively cheap.

    both cars are ideal, but ill throw another one in for ya.

    Thunderbird soupercoupe with a 5spd

    longtube headers
    catback exhaust
    larger supercharger pulley
    gears

    On another note you could just turbocharge your 5.0 mustang
     
    #29
  10. GAU89LXStang

    GAU89LXStang New Member

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    TT RT: I doubt it, the head and cam swap, I've been into cars since I was born (or so I am told), and have been tearing apart and rebuilding cars for over 14 years. Just giving you crap. :D

    I personally would go Mustang, but I'm not the one writing the check, spending the cash, getting the loan, or whatever... I have yet to find any DSM turbo either FWD or AWD for under $3000. And yes I do look at the ads for almost anything, I even check the price on cars I can't afford, ie. Vipers and Vettes...but that's another subject. A buddy of mine has a 1996 Eclipse GST auto. And I ran the snot out of him with my 89 LX 5 speed near stock, except for the K&N, and Dynomax mufflers. He also had a K&N, and I know for sure a muffler, but I believe his had a Cat back exhaust. He paid $5000 cash, I paid $2800 for the Stang.

    Regrettfully I had to sell it before getting stationed overseas. But that's ok cause I'm either getting a 2005 Mustang, or building my FFR Cobra kit (somehow I got the wife to buy off on the idea :D :nice: ) Plus I bought a 1989 Audi Coupe here.

    But that's my two cents.

    Later,
    Mo' Town
     
    #30
  11. TwinTurboRT

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    Hmm interesting- I've got a 93 notch here that could use heads and a cam, and there is a $1200 AWD 5spd DSM sitting here that will be getting a turbo, injector, maf, fuel pump, and plugs wires switched out...

    How about this- you come up here to oklahoma, we'll both start at the same time, whoever gets finished first pays for the notch's heads and cam (I'd like AFR165's and a Ed Curtis cam :D ) sound like a deal?

    Actually, the reason I posted is because there are no less than 10 DSM's FWD or AWD Turbo first gen's in this state for sale for under $3000.

    You guys all seem to compare to the 2nd gen's which ARE SLOW!!!!! (well, stock they are horribly slow). Step away from the 2nd gen's - they aren't worth the money. They have tiny turbo, small injectors, horrible MAF, weak internals, much more weight.
    A friend bought a 90 AWD Eclipse- put a K&N and a custom downpipe/catback on ($400) ran 14.3@97mph. That was it- stock boost! The cost of the car- $3500 2 years ago.
    One of my best friends (the reason I'm owning a mustang now) a die hard mustang addict (87 LX hatch, 87 GT, 90 LX hatch) is selling his 90 so he can have some money to play with the $1200 AWD 5spd car- assuming he sells for $3000 he'll have $1800 to play with- his mustang is a bone stock car, the DSM will end up with
    LS6 MAF and Ramcharges MAFT $300
    JPDC TD05 Dumptube $150
    K&N $30
    EVOIII Big16G $500
    550 injectors $250
    VR4 fuel pump $25
    p/p 2nd gen exhaust manifold $250
    which leaves around $300 for MBC $20, autometer pod and boost gauge/airfuel $100, turbo timer $100, car wash, vacuum.... used Krankvent from me for $50

    Go ahead and guess which he thinks is the better value?

    If you can't find a DSM under $3000 - you ain't looking right.
     
    #31
  12. I candy

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    i say get the new car with warrenty. sounds like ur first car. school usually means ur on a budget. so warrenty means no fixing expence.

    if not stangs are just more fun. better, more, cheaper on parts. ricers can't call u rice. and u support america.
     
    #32
  13. black86

    black86 New Member

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    :rolleyes: think about it, you are on a mustang site for a reason
     
    #33
  14. stoney

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    I was looking at some pics of those talons/eclipses. 90-91 And I found one thing common amoung them, very common.
    One Rats Nest of an engine bay.
    They look like they might be easy to work on if I saw a pic of an engine bay that was all cleaned up it might be differnt. ill post a pic for you guys of a talon engine bay and a typical mustang engine bay.
     
    #34
  15. stoney

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    pics
     

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  16. TwinTurboRT

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    Maybe not 100% accurate on the EGR lines - but this pick shows a lot of what you can kill nice and easy.

    The biggest thing is that the engine bay is smaller, so stuff looks even more crammed than it is- relocate that battery to the trunk, and BOOM! Tons of room. There is more in there, intercooler piping takes up room, the stock maf and filter are huge and they suck, a well built Cold air with a MAFT makes things much easier. The plugs are under the cover, the turbo right in front... it's actually quite easy (this coming from a guy who works on a trans mounted DOHC V6 with two turbo).
     

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  17. stoney

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    Well Your probably right a lot of that stuff can be removed, but on a lot of the pics ive looked at that is about the nicest one, most are all dirty and have more of an airbox to it.

    I dont know to much about Talons, but by the sounds of it they could be made fast. Ive read your posts befor about how to get it to run 12s and that doesnt seem like a lot of stuff do you have any links of cars with a similar setup that have some time slips. Itd be also nice to see what an engine bay looks like that nots all crammed up.

    Ive found that where I live 5.0 mustangs own around here the fastest car in town is a 5.0 mustang the second fastest is a cobra kit car which is based off the 5.0 mustang. Where im from the 5.0 is the standard if you got a car that can beat a 5.0 your fast.

    The part that i can attribute that would make a talon ideal for street racing is the all wheel drive, which is probably a huge reason why its decently fast I wonder what kind of 60ft times they have?

    Also when you say a Talon with those mods can run twelves are you also including that it is running drag radials and or powershifting ?

    Drag radials will knock off about half a second and powershifting will knock off another half a second.

    Myself I never powershift I cant keep goin out byin trannies
     
    #37
  18. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    First off i'd like to add to the non reliablity of the awd talons and eclipses.
    My buddy had one with a boost controller and a few other odds and ends, and it ran hard as hell out of the hole, if he was lucky enough to not brake something, by 65 or so, i would be screaming by him. Transmissions, rears, and timimg belts, they all could not take the beating. So he sold it, and got a mustang.

    Now as far as what can you do with 4000 bucks, is that for the car and mods? or just for mods? For that much money in mods, you can have whatever the hell you want.
     
    #38
  19. 86Five-0

    86Five-0 Member

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    That Talon engine bay doesn't look so tight to me. I used to drive a '93 Probe GT and it looked alot worse. Then again that's a 2.5L DOHC V6 stuffed into about the same amount of room.
     
    #39
  20. NKau

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    To the original poster, get the new car. Going to school and owning either a DSM or 5.0 mustang isn't a great combo. In my case, replacing small things on my 5.0 in the school parking lot during winter time (school was 280 miles from home) got old fast. Get the new car with a warranty; you can always get a 5.0 or DSM later.
    As far as the DSM v.s. 5.0 argument, buy what you like. What car isn't going to start breaking drivetrain parts after it's putting 300 hp or so through stock components? I do believe however that the DSM's had a far more inferior drivetrain. A friend of mine owned a '93 GSX and sold it after replacing the tranny 3 TIMES in 12 months due to the tranny failing or snapped half shafts. It costs more to make a DSM drivetrain bulletproof than it does to put a Tremec into a 5.0. You certainly can not beat the launch of the AWD DSM though and by simply turning up the boost on a stocker it is safe to say you could probably outrun a stock motor 5.0 even with gears and exhaust.
    I would say the 5.0 wins in terms of reliability and ability to take a beating over time while the DSM wins the fastest car for under $4,000 battle (until it breaks). Given a higher budget, I think the 5.0 has more overall potential though. It all comes down to buying what you like.
     
    #40

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