experienced help

StinkinLincoln

StinkinLincoln

Member
Dec 9, 2006
240
0
17
Louisiana
#1
alright guys, get your thinking caps on. lol
331 in a 95gt
10.3:1CR
RPM heads
rpm2 intake
30lb inj.
70mm tb
75mm pro m
255 pump
fpr set at 39ish
base timing at 11
tweecer r/t w/ BE and EA
wideband
3.27's and 26.1in mickey et's
aode-has a converter but i think its crappy
shorty equal's and gutted stock midpipe and stock mufflers
blaster coil-new rotor, cap,wires,plugs

alright, i have a buddy helping me tune this car, he tunes his s/c car so he knows what hes doing. this car is a dog and the headers are glowing after just a single 1st gear pull. i got 93 octane in it and had timing at 11, then tried at 15, still headers glow. i can hold rpms to like 3500 in park and after 10-15 seconds they start glowing. one log shows a 0-60mph in 10 seconds!!!!
it revs very slow. my tps is 1.6ish at idle, im getting another one tomorrow. if you can look at my datalogs and help figure this out, it would be great! its just so slow, before my bearings went out in the last rebuild, it was alot faster and i have not changed anything after the rebuild, and it was faster before. i took a fox 5spd vert by 3-4 cars from 10-100mph ish on the old rebuild, and that was with no tune. thanks alot guys, i have been toiling with this car for a while and i need it back in good health! let me know if the links dont work.

http://www.mediafire.com/?uglkmncv3f3
http://www.mediafire.com/?mwpdmd3hnty
http://www.mediafire.com/?1jmyom0lz9d
 

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#4
Glowing headers is a classic sign that you're timing needs to be advanced. With those heads I'd be running 14 degrees base timing minimum. Do you take the spout out when you set the base?

Furthermore, if you're tuning with the tweecer, the timing should be 10 degrees with the spout out and any additional timing changes should be done in the tables with the tweecer. I might bump up the max timing to 34 or 36 degrees.

What is your Air to Fuel ratio?
Are your spark plug wires wired correctly?
Does the car shut off immediately after you turn it off or does it sputter a couple times?

Adam
 
#6
the timing was set at 11 base, and yes with spout out. i had to tweak the pointer some to clear the balancer so to make sure the timing was not retarted i set it all 11, give or take a degree and it would still be ok. one of the logs i gave the link for i added 4 degrees in BE for a total of like 30-31 degrees. what can i get away with w/ a 10.3:1CR, alum heads and 93 octane?
AFR at wot is 12.2, some spots like right off idle it dips in the 11's, but from 2500-6000rpms its 12.2-12.3. that will be fixed soon also.
the car does not run rough at all, idles fine, even with the tp voltage being 1.6-1.7v.
im going to get another tps and see about putting my fp guage in the car.
im wondering if the converter could be causing it to rev real slow.
im pulling 910kg/hr of air and it est. 355hp and 380ish tq, but the main problem it revs real slow and makes the car slow.

my buddy thinks its mechanical since the datalogs look like everything is corresponding, except for loadX, it was at like 70 at idle, which he said is very high.
 
#7
You're running rich. For a naturally aspirated engine I'd change the air to fuel ratio to something like 12.8 to 13.0 at WOT. 3.27s are killing you in an auto with a full HCI, but not to the extent you are talking about with the 10 second 0-60s.

The converter wouldn't cause the headers to glow at idle. I think your issues are tune related, or if the tune is good, then mechanical timing issues are present.

It seems like your friend tunes your car like he would tune for a super charger, which is a no-no. Your problems sounds like you're running a supercharger tune, IE much less timing then you need, rich fuel conditions, etc. Not dogging him, I'm sure he's smart, but thats the feeling that I'm getting. I'm just hoping that he didn't load his s/c tune in there and forget to edit something. If I was you I'd start with the stock Cobra J4J1 tune, adjust for the meter and 30 pounders, and see how that works out.

Adam
 
#8
no its not a s/c tune, he knows its a tad rich but sais thats not the problem.
he took the stock u4po tune and the cabaza stragety and put my maf curve in and my injector settings and tweeked the maf curve a little but w/ my logs. im not doubting his tune, i have looked at it, and i would have changed the same things, im starting to think its a base timing prob that has occured some kind of way, my tps being way out of wack at idle, or fuel pressure. if FP drops, wouldnt that cause it to go lean?
 
#10
I have seen converters cause slow accelleration before but I don't think that this is the problem.

What kind of balancer are you using?
Are you sure the balancer ring hasn't slipped?
If it's a ford racing balancer they have two different sets of timing marks.

It sounds like a base timing problem to me. If all else fails try another distributor.
 
#11
Let me help steer the discussion. I haven't seen David's car in person but I have worked with him on the phone and looked at his logs.

I made the tune David is using. Since his car has run rough from the get-go, he is currently on stock timing and fuel tables (save for the 4* global he dropped in last nite to sort out if his timing pointer is wrong).

The base fuel on U4P0 at WOT is low 12s, his wideband AFR is tracking right with the commanded LAMBSE.

He borrowed my "floating" wideband I use for tuning when he was in town Sunday for the dragstip meet and said it backed up what his personal wideband says. Also, the logs he's sent me most recently his KAMRF's were tracking fairly close to 1 after they had a bit to learn, so the narrowband is backing up that his is not out of the ballpark on fueling.

David, didn't you also say the car ran poorly w/ the chip off (his MAF is calibrated to the injectors, base FP at 39psi).

I'm leaning towards a mechanical problem - he has had quite an experience w/ getting the engine and transmission rebuilt.

Hope this helps clarify the discussion a bit and get him some better answers so he can come beat that rig down the track with us soon!

Wes
 
#12
Stanger007 said:
Let me help steer the discussion. I haven't seen David's car in person but I have worked with him on the phone and looked at his logs.

I made the tune David is using. Since his car has run rough from the get-go, he is currently on stock timing and fuel tables (save for the 4* global he dropped in last nite to sort out if his timing pointer is wrong).

The base fuel on U4P0 at WOT is low 12s, his wideband AFR is tracking right with the commanded LAMBSE.

He borrowed my "floating" wideband I use for tuning when he was in town Sunday for the dragstip meet and said it backed up what his personal wideband says. Also, the logs he's sent me most recently his KAMRF's were tracking fairly close to 1 after they had a bit to learn, so the narrowband is backing up that his is not out of the ballpark on fueling.

David, didn't you also say the car ran poorly w/ the chip off (his MAF is calibrated to the injectors, base FP at 39psi).

I'm leaning towards a mechanical problem - he has had quite an experience w/ getting the engine and transmission rebuilt.

Hope this helps clarify the discussion a bit and get him some better answers so he can come beat that rig down the track with us soon!

Wes
Click to expand...


Yeah I think the problem has got to be in the base timing, distributor, or cam timing.
 
#13
rj95svt said:
I have seen converters cause slow accelleration before but I don't think that this is the problem.

What kind of balancer are you using?
Are you sure the balancer ring hasn't slipped?
If it's a ford racing balancer they have two different sets of timing marks.

It sounds like a base timing problem to me. If all else fails try another distributor.
Click to expand...

These are good points. The stock balancer is rated for 4800 RPMs. Rubber coming out of the balancer is a classic symptom.

Are the spark plugs and distributor synced up for the correct firing order? You can double check that easily. I'm just trying to cover all the bases, please don't be offended at that!

Why didn't you say it was Wes that made the tune?:flag: If anything the U4P0 tune should run LEAN. GTs will ping more often then a Cobra will.

Adam
 
#14
well im not sure exactly how it ran on stock tune, i know that it was in the 14-15afr range at wot. i had the FP jacked to like 46 so that it wouldnt be so lean, and i had it in the 13's at that point. if i remember correctly it may have been sluggish at low rpms, dont remember what it was at higher rpms.

i installed the cam just like i did last time, with same chain, gears and cam so i dont see that being the problem.
 
#15
2398891103_fd3f786687_b.jpg


A picture is worth a thousand words, here is one of his WOT runs from the logs he included in the first post.

Wes
 
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