Finally....KB dyno numbers

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by Ibeyorsuperman, Nov 29, 2003.


  1. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    Not sure i understand what you were saying about ford getting 'it' right?

    Very nice work i have to say. Is this completely custom or is it a stock setup from one of your other blowers saleen maybe?

    where is the intercooler on the 03 cobra setup? the KB 03 cobra kit reuses the stock intercooler so the route i may go may require me to setup a cobras intercooler in my car.

    kirkyg
  2. JM01

    JM01 Founding Member

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    If I remember right roush cars also have a different belt setup.... right? :shrug:
    Did roush help Ford in the development of the 2003 Cobra intercooler/blower kit?

    BTW Nice project! are you still gonna put the 2.3 ? :nice:


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  3. TJM01

    TJM01 Patience is a GD virtue Founding Member

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    Roush cars run a dual belt just like the 03 Cobra. Roush did the development for Ford on the Cobra.

    Yes the intake is being built for the 2.3L

    Kirk - I'm talking about port design. The ports in this intake are huge. Everything is custom using existing Ford parts. On the 03 it's in the same location except the water inlets come through the front of the intake. I had to turn them around for my application so the IC is actually in reverse of what the 03 does.

    You won't be able to use the 03 KB kit unless you convert to the 03 Cobra setup first.
  4. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    I'm planning on doing a 5.4L DOHC swap...Thats why i was asking about the intercooler. Modular performance already has a n/a upper/lower intake for the swap and they are designing one that a roots, works, & kb will bolt up to also. I'm not sure if the intercooler is being accounting for with their setup though.

    kirkyg
  5. Blown00GTAuto

    Blown00GTAuto Founding Member

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    We see that KBs are indeed very strong with just 9psi (and an intercooler). But if you're comparing KB against centrifugal psi for psi, why is it that you can safely run 9psi on a centrifugal without an intercooler, but you cannot run 9psi without an intercooler on the new 2v KB on pump gas? The thermal efficiency (or something) is apparently not the same.

    My point of reference is page 163 of the 'November 2003' issue of MM&FF where Kenne Bell reported on its testing of the non-intercooled kit with a smaller pulley. Here's an excerpt from that page : "..The high octane fuel allowed them to safely crank up the boost in non-intercooled trim .....The testing stopped short of the 9psi intercooled pulley size of 2 7/8 inch, but it should be possible to produce over 400 wheel horsepower running a mixture of premium unleaded and race fuel while at the track.
  6. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    Who said you can't run 9 psi on pump gas?

    The 9 psi kit as it was originally advertised was tuned for 91 octane for the intercooler. 93 octane would be fine non-intercooled.

    kirkyg
  7. Blown00GTAuto

    Blown00GTAuto Founding Member

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    Kenne Bell.

    Did you see what I quoted from their report in my post above? Pure 93 octane is not the "race fuel" mixture KB was talking about.

    FYI, running an intercooler is an equivalent replacement for 100 octane.
  8. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    Im well aware of that...but what you dont understand is that KB is being very conservative. Dude there's no way you can argue that a 60+ degree cooler intake temp then centrifugal and roots style can't possibly be worse on detonation :confused:

    kirkyg
  9. JM01

    JM01 Founding Member

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    Try 10.5 psi without an intercooler with 91 gas (couldnt find 93 gas at the time for the Dyno) in the summer of AZ and no detonation at all.
    I really dont know which blower is better but I can tell you wich tune it is..... :nice:

    JM
  10. B C

    B C New Member

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  11. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    Oh thats another thing good point BC. Timing in the steeda tune is more conservative for instance than the timing in the KB tunes. Check out the degree timing they used on their dynos...its pretty high. Thats why a dyno tune is always a good thing. I think it would be better to run less timing and get more safe boost.

    kirkyg
  12. B C

    B C New Member

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    I made a bunch more power when the timing was bumped up to 22 degress with 94 octane. But they pulled at least 5 degrees out for the 91 tune. I believe the most my tune will do is like 17 degrees in optimum conditions whatever that is. Out of curiosity does anyone know what range of timing the Steeda tune is setup for?
  13. cap42

    cap42 New Member

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    CK would probably be the person to ask on that one I'm interested in this also
  14. Michael Johnson

    Michael Johnson Founding Member

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    As was stated KB has a tendency to be conservative in their octane/boost recommendations. When doing an article for a national magazine it isn't good marketing to blow up an engine during teasting. This is probably the main reason for KB's conservative approach.

    As for whether a KB can be run at more than 9 psi without high octane fuel or an intercooler take a look at my signature. I currently have the water injection and J&S Safeguard disabled and am running 12 psi on pump gas with 22 degrees total timing without even the slightest hint of detonation. This isn't uncommon either for us 5.0L KB guys. I don't see why the 4.5L GT kit would be any different. With the water injection enabled I've run 16 psi on pump gas without any detonation issues. Even in the peak heat of summer.
  15. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    Thats pretty impressive 16 psi :)

    kirkyg
  16. Blown00GTAuto

    Blown00GTAuto Founding Member

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    What I don't understand is who's claiming a 60+ degree cooler intake temperature difference between KBs and centrifugals :scratch:. I won't take any guesses on that one :p.

    Yes, 9psi with intercooler is good with pump gas, but was it you that ran a mixture of 91 pump gas with 100 octane at the track last time for safety? My apologies if I'm thinking of someone else.

    Exactly. If 9psi and no intercooler was safe, they would have tried it. Centrifugals have (repeatedly) been tested at 9+psi non-intercooled.

    All I'm hearing is that the new KBs for 4.6 GTs are very different from their predecessors (for the 5.0).
  17. B C

    B C New Member

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    Yep that was me. I filled up at a Flying J on the drive out to Phoenix because that is where our caravan stopped. My thought was the gas is cheap for a reason. So I figured if I am going to run at the track I should either throw in some octane booster or mix in some race gas so I won't worry and for some cheap insurance. We bought 15 gallons. I topped off my tank with almost 7.5 gallons of 100 octane. I shared the rest with a buddy who runs a Vortech supercharged Bullitt and he put the other 7.5 gallons in his tank for insurance.

    The other 2 times at the track I have run just straight Chevron 91.
  18. el_kid_1

    el_kid_1 New Member

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    Ok guys, I need to have a clear understanding on the whole issue of gasoline octane rating and boost now that I"m about ready to install my new KB 4.6L (9 psi intercooled) Kit. So, KB tunes the chips for 91 octanes? If I use 93 octane gas, will I be able to run more boost safely? What would be top boost that I could run on my internally-stock engine with 93 octane gas? I don't remember telling James from KB the octane rating of the gas that I commonly use, which leads me to think that my chip was tune for 91. Here in Puerto Rico, I can get 93 octane gas almost at every pump station.
  19. Michael Johnson

    Michael Johnson Founding Member

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    It's really the margin of safety they felt comfortable with for that particular test. Why take even the slightest risk to blow an engine and miss a great opportunity to promote their product. The 1.7L case used for the 4.6L GT kit uses an updated/improved rotor profile that is better than those used in the 1.5L case. They are actually more efficient. Based on my experience with the 1.5L, the 1.7L should be able to run 10 psi on pump gas with decent reliability. The timing would need to be adjusted accordingly. Like any other supercharger though the higher the boost level the greater the risk of engine damage.

    IMO, the 4.6L GT kit's design is about as close to perfect as KB could have done. They are making 400 rwhp on totally stock GT's. That includes the stock exhaust, air filter box, thottle body, MAF etc. Also, from B C's track times it looks like they will run high 11's with the stock gears and a set of DR's or slicks. It takes some serious work to break 400 rwhp with a KB on a 5.0L. The 4.6L intercooled kit does it just by bolting it on a stock engine and running 9 psi of boost. Plus it does it with almost 1/2 of a liter less engine displacement. This is why the kit impresses me so much.
  20. el_kid_1

    el_kid_1 New Member

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    I just found this article in the Kenne Bell site which contains valuable information on the main difference between roots and twin screw blowers. http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/general-info/twinscrew-vs-roots-fromcatalog.pdf

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