Fire and Ice

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by SN65, Aug 12, 2006.


  1. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    This weekend we finished up all the chassis mods. Just some grinding and sanding and we should be ready to drop her back on the frame rack for the final torsion test.

    Here is a link to the latest photos.

    http://sn65.com/Fire & Ice unibody reinforcement.htm

    It will be interesting to see what the final numbers come in at. I am guessing that we will have reduced torsional deflection by somewhere in the 80 to 90% range. Not to bad for a car without a cage.
  2. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    Hummm....

    We just performed our final torsional test and the numbers have not changed from the last test.

    Hummmm.......

    We are currently at 70% reduction in torsional deflection. I would have guessed that all the welding and the last few mods would have netted us some gain, but evidently not.

    However....

    We did cut the lips off the rear quarter panel / wheel opening in preparation for the fender flares. Right now, the quarter is not attached to the outer wheel housing. And, the quarter draws tight on the side under pressure and loosens up on the side under compression.

    This must be throwing off the numbers. I guess we will have to weld the quarters back up before we can finish the test.

    It is funny how little things can have profound effects.
  3. Blue Oval Man

    Blue Oval Man Member

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    Hi Bob, I was just checking out the pics of your finished chassis mods and noticed you have extended the front frame rail to the seat pan. Are you planning on extending the rear frame rail to the seat pan, or do you feel it would not be of any additional benefit? My body guy figures we could weld up a channel from the rear rails, straight forward to the seat pans with no bends as you would get with subframe connectors, and get even more benefit. Did you just bend up some sheetmetal for the rail extentions or did you use a piece of tubing? I have been watching your progress with great interest and am planning a lot of the same mods on my 68 fastback, the only major change we will be doing will be to make the inner shock tower piece, the part in the wheelwell, somehow removable as I will be using a stock style, but very modified, suspension. Thanks. David.
  4. DarkoStoj

    DarkoStoj Founding Member

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    Wow that is very interesting stuff you're doing there. What do you think the most important parts of a classic mustang are to brace? I plan on running some real high hp numbers but don't want to run a cage...and don't want to twist up the body like a pretzel
  5. 68FBJJZ109

    68FBJJZ109 Member

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    How much weight as all the chassis reinforcements added to the car? The car looks great so far.
  6. brin0357

    brin0357 New Member

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    Basically a terminator in a classic body?
  7. brin0357

    brin0357 New Member

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    You should probly look into that main hoop. Structurally its defintely not the best design. Your triangulation doesnt meet up with the corners of the main hoop, and usually you want your X to center with the horizontal crossbar. I have seen cages fail at the very point because the cage builder missed the corner of the main hoop by a few inches. What tubing are you using? Those are some great looking welds.
  8. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    Hi David,

    The front frame rail extensions are formed out of 14 gage sheet.

    We are not going to extend the rear frame rails. We are going to rely on the roll bar to help reinforce the rear frame rails and suspension mounting points.

    You could weld yours up just like mine and still use the stock suspension. You don't have to remove the outer cover for any type of suspension access, so why not weld it up?
  9. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    That's a tough one. Everything we are doing is designed to work as a package.

    How much is "real High"?
  10. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    Thanks for the kind words.

    I think we are adding about 150 to 160 lbs. When complete, I am guessing that the car will weigh in at about 3,000 lbs

    Not to bad when you consider that we are adding about 6% to the overall weight of the car and netting over a 70% gain in torsional stability.
  11. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    I understand what you are saying, but I think that we will be OK. All of the cross bracing does come to a single point. We are already looking at modifying the next cage raising that point up about 2".

    The tube wall is about 1/8" thick.

    Thanks for the comment on the welds. We work hard to make them strong, as well as nice to look at.
  12. DarkoStoj

    DarkoStoj Founding Member

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    somewhere between 700 and 800 at the wheels streetable w/ boost
  13. mikemustang289

    mikemustang289 New Member

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    What is the goal of the finished cars? Are they intended to be cars that could compete in autocross? drag racing? or are they show cars/trailer queens?

    There is obviously a lot of work and knowledge going into the builds; I'm just wondering if the end result will be cars that can perform as well as or close to higher dollar cars like the Ford GT, or Ferraris in the way they will handle, acceleratre, brake, corner, etc...

    Or is this kind of a more Show intended? 550hp/735tq sounds cool but the car will certainly be traction limited with 18x9.5 wheels. Do you plan to test the cars after they are built??? sort of like Car & Driver would do?
  14. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    Hi Mike,

    Our Goal... Hummm....

    Our goal is to produce a car (well, actually two) that are competitive with the best high performance production cars manufactured today. We want to accelerate, brake and handle as good as the best of them. But, we also desire the same street manners. We want a firm yet comfortable ride, a quality sound system and all the necessary creature comforts you would expect in a late model, high performance vehicle.

    That is why we are taking a long hard look at the basic chassis structure and what we can do to improve it. It makes no sense to me to install all the best, “state-of-the-art” electrical and mechanical systems available into a stock mid 60's chassis. And to us, installing a set of sub-frame-connectors, is just not enough. None of these systems will function to their fullest potential unless the chassis is also updated to withstand the output of the high performance drivetrain and suspension.

    As far as the coupe goes (and actually the fastback as well), we will be drag racing the cars a bit (The coupe will be in the low 10 second range and the fastback should be in the same ballpark) as well as competing in some autocross, open track events. We are thinking about competing in drag week, if our schedule allows. It will be interesting to see how the I6 does against the V8. The V8 should have the upper hand in HP, but the I6 will have a pretty good weight advantage.

    And yes, these will be show cars, in that we will be showing them at a number of national events.

    But trailer queens...

    TRAILER QUEENS!!!!

    Never. Never built one, never will. The only cars I consider to be trailer queens are the truly rare, collectable cars. Low mileage, all original Boss 427's. That is a car that should be trailered to every event.

    Since finishing the SN65 last march, we have put about 6K on the odometer. We drive it everywhere we can. We may trailer the SN65 to far off events like SEMA, but ONLY because (when you consider the time and money involved) it costs just as much to trailer the car as it would to drive the car from Chicago to Vegas, show it for a week and drive it back.

    As far as testing the cars, we are very interested in getting as much feedback as possible. We welcome the chance to put these cars through their paces at every opportunity. We want to know how we compare to the Z06’s, Vipers, Ferraris, etc… But more than that, we are interested in how the overall driving experience compares. All things being equal, which car would you rather own. We are hoping that the obvious choice would be one of our Mustangs.

    The engine specifications published are preliminary. We are still working out a number of details that will impact the final numbers. We will be close, but we really won’t know how much we put to the pavement until we actually test the cars. That being said, we currently make 550 RWHP with the SN65 and that car is running on 18 x 9.5 rear rims and 18 x 8.5 rims up front. We have no “hook up” issues with the SN65 whatsoever. I am not saying that we cannot light-um-up whenever we desire, but the reserve of HP comes in handy when, for example, a twin turbo 911 (top speed in excess of 180 MPH) pulls up along side of you on a clear stretch of interstate, starts messing with you and demands that you show him what your “cute little pony car” is made of. Just downshift, drop the accelerator to the floor, up-shift once, shift again and within the wink of an eye, you are passing 150 and the 911, just off your right rear bumper, cannot seem to figure out WHY he isn't passing you or (for that matter) can't gain any ground. Pulling into the next available rest area is always fun because the Porsche just HAS to follow you in and ask “What the hell do you have in that thing”?
  15. gonzothegreat

    gonzothegreat Member

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    should be a sticky :)
  16. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    Well... Things are moving along.

    We have the fender flares roughed out. We won't be able to do the final fit until we test fit the 3 link rear end.

    [​IMG]

    Also we have finished boxing the motor mount reinforcements.

    [​IMG]
  17. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    We have been working hard on areas of the car you will never see.

    Here is the cowl before we started....

    [​IMG]

    Here is the completed cowl....

    [​IMG]

    We just have to weld up all the holes we are not going to use and we will be sending it off to the media blaster.
  18. FullRace

    FullRace New Member

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    What is this thing gonna weigh in at?
  19. SN65

    SN65 New Member

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    We are adding about 200 lbs but we are taking away weight in other areas.

    I am guessing that we come in at about 3,000 lbs when complete.

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