First Post And Multiple Questions.

Discussion in '1994 - 1995 Specific Tech' started by eurotech, Jan 17, 2014.


  1. eurotech

    eurotech New Member

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    Hello guys, I am a first time poster and potential owner of a 94 GT, A little background on me, I am a professional European car technician. After building many euro cars I have decided to go a different route, well in a way I did build mopars in my early years but went into the euros for differing reasons. But I digress, I work in a shop connected to a classic car dealer, he just took in a 94 GT Vert which is heavily modded. I am thinking of purchasing it before I do I wanted to see what the community thought of the build and what I should look for/look out for. So before I list the sheet of mods I want to first start by saying as far as I can tell the vehicle has stock injectors (blue tops) and a stock fuel ECU, I am not sure if this is the norm to run the stock ECU or if I am just missing something somewhere but from my line of work, mods and ECU tuning go hand in hand. So now for the list of mods.

    331 Stroker, pro built in 2004
    AFR 165 heads
    Trickflow R series intake
    Trickflow throttle body elbow
    Professional products 70mm TB
    Pro M 70mm MAF
    MSD pro billet distributor
    MSD blaster coil
    Trickflow stage 2 camshaft
    MSD 6al box with 2 step
    Under drive pulleys
    Fluidyne aluminum radiator
    Aeoromotive FPR
    Autometer tach
    autometer fuel press, oil press, water temp guages
    battery relocate to trunk with disconnect
    BBk short headers
    2.5" exhaust w/flowmasters
    Rednech C4 with trans brake
    SFI ultra bellhousing
    SFI scatter shield
    SFI flex plate
    Locking dipstick
    4k stall converter
    driveshaft saftey loop
    line lock
    full NHRA certified cage
    Kirkey race seats
    5pt harness
    Subframe connectors
    Upper double adjustable and lower single adjustable control arms
    Moser 35 spline rear end, 4.10 gears, c-clip eliminators, spool and extended studs for slicks
    Rear diff cover w/girdle
    Drag racking rear ARB
    Fiberglass hood w/ pins
    Strange 10 way adjustable shocks and struts front and rear
    Weld drag light wheels
    15X4 MT front runners
    15X10 toyo street tires
    1/4 mile time claimed [email protected]

    So, first questions are, is this a solid build? Why am I not seeing any injectors or fuel control? What would this build normally put out power wise? What would you guys value this car at? It has been repainted and looks showroom perfect. What would I need to do to make this a 10 second car? I appreciate your help guys. I have high hopes for this forum.

    -Karl
     
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  2. toyman

    toyman SN Certified Technician

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    The injectors are not stock. Light blue tops are 24# stock is 19# with an orange top. I suspect there is a tuning chip installed into the service port on the stock ECU. This will allow the tuner to adjust fuel load for the larger injectors. The build is IMHO good. The easiest way to 10 seconds from here will be a blower install.
     
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  3. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    Easiest way to get that into the 10's is to transplant into another car, its a vert afterall. But anyhow, the build seems well done. Throw some nitrous at her and go land that 10 second pass
     
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  4. 95opal

    95opal Member

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    A few things holding this combo back...
    1. The 165 heads are a bit small would go with an AFR 195
    2. throttle body could go up to 75mm
    3.same with MAF
    4. 24# injectors kinda small could go up to a min of 30#s if not 42# if boosting go strait to 60#s
    5. fuel pump needs to be identified and upgraded accordingly
    All in all a slid build minus the couple of bottlenecks I pointed out

    Plenty of 10 second verts running around these days ..... and a good shot of juice or 10-12# of boost will get ya there after addressing the minor short comings I listed. Cant help ya price wise as a car is only worth what the buyers willing to pay for it.
     
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  5. eurotech

    eurotech New Member

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    Thanks everyone, It looks like I will end up with the car. Is it worth the effort to go to a 75mm MAF, 75mm TB, and 30-42#/HR injectors vs an Intake and Carb? The vehicle will see some street time but fuel economy does not matter one bit, what I want is maximum power. I just feel like every change I would do I would need to keep on changing injectors and calibrating the MAF at the very least. The next question I have, I don't know if these pistons are clearanced for 2"+ valves, that would keep me from stepping up the heads without pulling pistons right?
     
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  6. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    Do not go carb, you will regret it! I would consider going to a 75 mm th, and larger maf. Are you planning on boosting it at any piint? An injector upgrade would be necessary, and perhaps consider a Moates Quarterhorse so tuning adjystments can be made as needed
     
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  7. jozsefsz

    jozsefsz Active Member

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    Agree with 95opal I'd jump up to the 42lb injectors and tune for those, that will give you lots of headroom in the future if you have bigger plans. I also agree with madspeed, I own and drive an older carbureted Ford as well and it's amazing how much of a dinosaur it truly is, especially on a cold day. Unless you're in a perpetually warm location I wouldn't even consider a carb. It's a bit like throwing your computer out the window and replacing it with a phone-book and land-line telephone, welcome back to 1982. :)

    With your mods (stroker, heads, cam, larger injectors primarily) I'd be surprised if it wasn't chipped - it probably is as you mentioned. I'd also be really amazed if it actually ran 11-second 1/4's unless a bottle was involved (I'm thinking low-13's). I'd put a guess on your horsepower numbers in the low 300's at the rear wheels, a complete guess but most of the mods you list aren't significant power-adders. As for value, the car is older so it's more about the condition than anything else. Rust-free, well-maintained, nice clean interior, etc. It's worth whatever it is to you, and whatever currency and local market conditions dictate.

    By comparison if you become proficient with tuning the ECU yourself, you can change any parameter and alter your tune in seconds, getting immediate feedback on the outcome. To properly tune a modern carb, you can spend hours under the hood removing fuel-bowls and spilling everywhere, swapping jets, changing power-valves, adjusting idle mixtures, setting butterflies, sizing accelerator pumps, fiddling with the temperamental choke, etc. A huge pain in the rear which will net you zero horsepower over injection, decrease your overall driveability, probably make you emissions-illegal depending on your local laws, and be significantly expensive if you do it right.

    When I see a carbureted 94-95, my first thought is "there's an owner that was too lazy to learn how to do it right." I realize that's a little unfair (there are some valid race-cases for carburetion) but it's largely true.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  8. eurotech

    eurotech New Member

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    Well first off, no emissions here so I am free from those restraints. What program do you guys suggest to use to modify tables in the ECU? I don't know if I will run a supercharger or nitrous but it will be one of those in the future, I am looking more towards NOS for cost since I am not finding any blowers under $4k (maybe not looking in the right places?) I guess I am getting ahead of myself as I have not yet made the decision to purchase the car, honestly if this is just a 13 second car I would be disappointed, but that would just mean I would be asking for a lower price. The problem is that the guy selling the car is not the one making the claims, it is the previous owner. As the man selling it is a high end classic car dealer and only has the receipts of which there are many $20k worth of work.
     
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  9. toyman

    toyman SN Certified Technician

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    I guess what's not been made clear here is the fact that the stock ECU cannot be tuned as you describe. What can be done though, is to add a piggyback unit which is tunable or to opt for an aftermarket stand-a-lone ECU.
     
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  10. jozsefsz

    jozsefsz Active Member

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    imho the two best options (if you want to keep the stock ECU, personally I don't see why not since it is much cheaper to do so than to get an aftermarket replacement) are to go with something like an SCT 4-bank chip with a mail-order tune provider (American Muscle Bama Tunes as an example). This is good for folks with minor mods who don't want / need full control or who aren't excited to learn about the ECU (there's a knowledge curve which takes some time to overcome). You can also go with a professional / dyno tuner who would likely install an SCT chip for you. Unfortunately there are no easy hand-helds for our cars.

    As for doing it yourself, the most popular available options are TwEECer and Moates Quarterhorse. I have the Quarterhorse and it's great, tons of features, fast processor, data-logging, relatively low price. Couple the hardware with Clint Garrity's Binary Editor software (and possibly EEC Analyzer) and you have a great package giving you full control of the ECU. There are other software options but Binary Editor seems to get the highest approvals and it's the only one I've personally used.
     
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