Progress Thread Getting In Over My Head: '89 Gt Hatch: End Of The Road

It's been an interesting weekend.

My brake lines came in:

IMG_20160930_213658.jpg


These are the lines I didn't need, but which came in the kit. When I took this picture, the line I needed was in the car. Stainless steel, pre-bent.

First annoyance: the long line (which goes to the passenger front brake) has what they call "shipping bends", which is why the master cylinder end and caliper end are so close. Supposedly, these bends are identified by stickers. I don't see such stickers. The one sticker that's there is basically the part number, which is also on the driver's side line that didn't have shipping bends.

I fought with the line and the car with the usual drama. The caliper side fitting for the old line was rust-welded to the hose, so I ended up cutting it off with a cutoff wheel and replaced the brake hose as well. Eventually, though, I got it all together. The bleeder valve on the caliper wasn't even stuck, despite not having a cap. And then, pressing down the brake pedal to start things moving, I hear squirting under the hood by the master cylinder.

What could have possibly gone wrong?

IMG_20161002_161644.jpg


Yup. Stripped. You're probably asking yourself, "What about the end the fitting screws onto? Did he just destroy that new brake hose?" Nope--I wish. I destroyed the master cylinder end, which is equally stripped out.

Nuts. Time to order a new master cylinder.

That ordered, it was time to see if I could salvage this line. Cutting off the flare should be no problem, but can I re-flare the end afterwards? Survey says "nope, not without an expensive flaring tool." So, rather than go that route, I bought some generic 3/16" steel brake line and rented a flaring tool.

As I type this, the line is cut, bent, flared, and test fitted, and seems ready to go. The master cylinder is also loose, awaiting the delivery person tomorrow. And I have a few jugs of brake fluid. I've reviewed the instructions for bench bleeding, and apart from being a huge mess, doesn't seem too intimidating.

It is a bit frustrating that the fairly expensive kit I paid big bucks for is going to essentially be useless in the end. My fault, for sure. But I wish I had known how hard it was to re-flare stainless. Had I paid a little less money, this would have been fairly easy to fix. Oh, well; the two intermediate lines to the proportioning valve will be nice and shiny when it's all over. And, honestly, I bought the pre-bent lines because I didn't feel like learning how to bend and flare; now that I'm on the other side of that journey, I've learned something I didn't know before. So, there's a silver lining here.

And hopefully, the car will be driveable tomorrow. It needs to be; the kid's Honda has a serious problem that makes it essentially undriveable, so parts store runs and other errands have to be done at my wife's convenience. I was going to relegate the '89 back to "most unreliable car I own", but the Honda seems unwilling to give up that title. I hope that, in a few months, the Honda will be gone, a replacement will be in the driveway, and the '89 will be or have been subjected to the tender mercies of one body shop or the other for those frame rails.
 
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Have you considered running a thread chaser/tap into the threads of the master cylinder?
Harbor freight carries a decent flaring tool-cones in handy more than you would think lol
 
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It's been an interesting weekend.

My brake lines came in:

IMG_20160930_213658.jpg


These are the lines I didn't need, but which came in the kit. When I took this picture, the line I needed was in the car. Stainless steel, pre-bent.

First annoyance: the long line (which goes to the passenger front brake) has what they call "shipping bends", which is why the master cylinder end and caliper end are so close. Supposedly, these bends are identified by stickers. I don't see such stickers. The one sticker that's there is basically the part number, which is also on the driver's side line that didn't have shipping bends.

I fought with the line and the car with the usual drama. The caliper side fitting for the old line was rust-welded to the hose, so I ended up cutting it off with a cutoff wheel and replaced the brake hose as well. Eventually, though, I got it all together. The bleeder valve on the caliper wasn't even stuck, despite not having a cap. And then, pressing down the brake pedal to start things moving, I hear squirting under the hood by the master cylinder.

What could have possibly gone wrong?

IMG_20161002_161644.jpg


Yup. Stripped. You're probably asking yourself, "What about the end the fitting screws onto? Did he just destroy that new brake hose?" Nope--I wish. I destroyed the master cylinder end, which is equally stripped out.

Nuts. Time to order a new master cylinder.

That ordered, it was time to see if I could salvage this line. Cutting off the flare should be no problem, but can I re-flare the end afterwards? Survey says "nope, not without an expensive flaring tool." So, rather than go that route, I bought some generic 3/16" steel brake line and rented a flaring tool.

As I type this, the line is cut, bent, flared, and test fitted, and seems ready to go. The master cylinder is also loose, awaiting the delivery person tomorrow. And I have a few jugs of brake fluid. I've reviewed the instructions for bench bleeding, and apart from being a huge mess, doesn't seem too intimidating.

It is a bit frustrating that the fairly expensive kit I paid big bucks for is going to essentially be useless in the end. My fault, for sure. But I wish I had known how hard it was to re-flare stainless. Had I paid a little less money, this would have been fairly easy to fix. Oh, well; the two intermediate lines to the proportioning valve will be nice and shiny when it's all over. And, honestly, I bought the pre-bent lines because I didn't feel like learning how to bend and flare; now that I'm on the other side of that journey, I've learned something I didn't know before. So, there's a silver lining here.

And hopefully, the car will be driveable tomorrow. It needs to be; the kid's Honda has a serious problem that makes it essentially undriveable, so parts store runs and other errands have to be done at my wife's convenience. I was going to relegate the '89 back to "most unreliable car I own", but the Honda seems unwilling to give up that title. I hope that, in a few months, the Honda will be gone, a replacement will be in the driveway, and the '89 will be or have been subjected to the tender mercies of one body shop or the other for those frame rails.

All long brake lines are bent like that so they can fit in the shipping boxes. You can unbend the, by gently undoing the bend with your hands, or buy a cheap brake line bending tool at HF. You can also use various sized of pipe, cups, containers, or other items with smooth radiuses to bend and unbend lines. Brake lines are sometimes tough to line up straight. Best thing is if you dont think they are going in straignt, stop and realign the brake line. You may be able to tap the MC back to the line size. Make sure you double flare the lines.

For bench bleeding, it's farily easy, Most MC's come with the plastic lines and fittings to run the lines back into the MC.. just fill the MC with fluid, secure the MC into a vise or hold it firmly and with a socket extension slowly push the MC piston back and forth until all of the air is out of the lines.. It is much easier to bleed the MC off the car than if you install it and hook up the lines. Then you will need to bleed all of the air in the MC all the way out of the brake lines

Stuff like this happens to all of us. It's part of the build and once fixed you can feel good knowing you did it yourself.
 
So you all know how easy it is to remove a master cylinder from the brake booster? All the videos online show it basically sliding off once the two nuts are removed.

Not for me. Dang thing is so stuck, I've broken off a chisel tip trying to force the master cylinder to separate from the booster.

I'm taking a break, because I started getting angry at it, which is foolish. I'm actually thinking the next step is to remove the whole brake booster.

Any hints or tips from those of you who have been here?
 
so you do have all of the brake lines disconnected right? And sprayed PB blaster on the studs for the nuts? Give the master a little love tap with a rubber or plastic hammer.

Yes, yes, and I've given the master a little love tap, and a less little tap with a little less love.

One side is loose. The other--well, if you told me it was welded to the brake booster, I'd believe you. That's the side with part of my chisel broken off and still embedded.
 
Didn't get to the car for a few days due to general busyness and sickness in the family, other than fairly regular soaking of the master cylinder with PB Blaster and futile attempts at removal.

So, I took a different approach:

IMG_20161009_195037.jpg


Haven't played much with it, but it's still holding on like it's welded on. Here's a close up of the offending bolt hole:

IMG_20161009_195304.jpg


And Craigslist has provided me with a plan forward:

IMG_20161009_195628.jpg


There was a little bit of rust; took a wire wheel to it, then painted it with some semi-gloss I picked up at the parts store. It's not quite the same; not sure if it's a '93 Cobra booster or just one of those third-party ones. I've got it sorta positioned in the engine bay now, but all kinds of stuff is getting in the way, so it looks like I'm going to have to take apart more of the engine bay to get it in. Which I'll do tomorrow.

I may poke at the old booster a bit more, too; if I can separate the master cylinder from it without damaging it, maybe I'll go back to it. We'll see.
 
If you've got that kinda stuck, your gonna want to replace the booster along with the master. Somehow moisture got in there. Don't give yourself a further headache by dealing with rust. Replace both, you never take a chance on brakes. You only get one chance to stop. Money's not worth the trouble.


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The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. Assuming I can get this other booster in.

In other news, LMR had their 72-hour 50Resto sale, and I took advantage of it. The solution to the rusty frame rails is on its way. Now I just need to find someone to cut 'n weld.
 
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Quick update. Progress is slow; the wife is still not feeling well, and stuff is heating up at work.

The booster is in. I ended up taking the dash apart and dropping the steering column to get to the bolts. Interestingly, one of the nuts holding up the steering column braces was just sitting on its bolt, not even hand-tight. That's the second nut I've come across that way.

I got to find out more about why my dash rattles. The anchor for the black frame around the instruments is broken and won't hold its screw, which explains a lot. While I had it apart, I found a bad connection from when I did the headlight switch harness way back when, and re-crimped it. I had also suspected my instrument light dimmer had crapped out, which I confirmed by swapping for one I got a junkyard last winter. And, finally, my hood latch has been zip-tied to the steering column since I got it. I'm pretty sure I'm missing the bracket it's supposed to bolt to. For now, I cut the zip tie and bolted it to a hole under the dash close to where it's supposed to go. Hopefully, that will mean I don't need to fish under the dash anymore when I want to open the hood.

All back together, and no new electrical gremlins. The brake lights even work. So that's a win.

With the booster in, two new obstacles have arisen:
  • The new booster puts the master cylinder much closer to the firewall, which means the lines to the proportioning valve no longer reach. So, it looks like I get to use more of the brake line I bought.
  • The threads for the fitting for the line that originally blew appear to be damaged. Fortunately, I discovered this before stripping out yet another master cylinder port.
So, it looks like I need a few more fittings for the new lines, and I'll probably pick up a real line bending tool from HF.

Also, any tips for getting good flares from those parts store flaring tools?
 
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Work, work, work. Technically, I'm still under the gun, but I was getting tired of not having a car to drive, so...

IMG_20161030_214929.jpg


Behold my new awesome brake hydraulics! Brand-new master cylinder, new-to-me weird brake booster, and hand-bent hard lines. Amazingly, no leaks--yet. I'll be keeping a close eye on those. Only strange thing is that I don't seem to have a dash light for the parking brake anymore. But they work; took it for a spin around the neighborhood, and couldn't even tell a difference from before the line failed.

While I had the wheels off bleeding brakes, I took the opportunity to learn a few things about my exhaust, none of which make me feel good.

First, it looks like the whole thing is welded together, from the tailpipe forward. I think there are joints connecting the exhaust manifold to the rest. All the other joints have been cut out, and the pipes welded together. The welds don't look to be in great shape, and I suspect I have a few exhaust leaks around them.

Second, I have an exhaust configuration I'm calling a "no-pipe". Everyone else seems to have a place after the cats where the two pipes join; something like an X-pipe or a H-pipe. I have two pipes going from the cats to the mufflers, without even touching. Literally, 100% of the gas coming out the right tailpipe was burned on the right side of the engine, and the same with the left tailpipe and left side of the engine.

Third, I can see why the smog pump tube isn't all hooked up. One branch seems to be welded to the cat. The other is sticking out pointing towards the floor pan, with the cat tube right in line down below it. You get the impression that you could just rotate the smog pump tube assembly and get everything in line, except for that aforementioned welding which locks the current configuration down tight. If I were to connect those, the connecting line would be in a S shape.

I'll let you all tell me what a fine job somebody did on this exhaust, or not. From my perspective, it looks like a new exhaust may have moved up the priority list. I think I can get to transmission stuff by dropping the entire exhaust, assuming they didn't weld the mounts to the underbody, but if I'm doing that much work, why put the old crappy exhaust back up when I'm done?

First priority, though, will be to see about getting those frame rails fixed.
 
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Aftermarket H/X-pipe/Mid-pipes/mufflers and tail pipes can all be had with a single click lol I wouldn't worry to much about it until you do all the tranny and frame rail work. And maybe by then one of the Stangnet hoarders may pop up and offer to sell you a 'gently used' setup
 
Somewhat-regular update time.

Not much has changed, due to the fact that the Fox is now my go-to driver instead of just being my toy, and so must be kept in running condition. In that capacity, it has performed admirably so far. Still no leaks from the new brake lines.

Work was interesting last week; I got myself sent to DC on business, and was in town for the election results. That was an unhappy city for a while.

I finally got through to one of the resto shops in the area about the frame rails. Talked to them while I was in DC; gave info on the car and the kit. They want to see it, of course; I'm going to try to get out there this week. I'm going to push to get on their schedule while still shopping around, but right now, I'm kinda inclined to go with the folks who answer their phone.

And something new: laying on the gas while running an errand, I heard a distinct ping. I haven't checked the timing since I got the car, and I have no idea what kind of gas it had before. Being charitable, I could just assume that the previous owner timed the car for premium, and I'm putting regular in it. But for now, it looks like I'll be checking timing when I get to those plugs 'n wires 'n cap 'n rotor. Got a mind to test compression, too, while I'm pulling plugs out, just to see what I've got to work with.

So with all the ho-hum, maybe we can have fun arguing over what exhaust I should get. After doing some reading and looking at options, I'm leaning towards something like the BBK catted H-pipe. Anyone want to sell me on the X-pipe instead? I'm under the impression that the H-pipe favors low-end torque, while the X-pipe favors the high end. In a street car, isn't low-end torque always favorable over high-end horsepower when a trade-off has to be made? For me, at least, this car speaks to me on the launch with that oomph off the line, which makes me lean in that direction.

(Off-road? I don't need to pass inspections, but I do have a bit of tree-hugger in me, and a move isn't out of the question at some point in the future. So I'm really wanting cats absent some strong reason otherwise.)

Also, I'm not sure what to do for everything past the mid-pipe. My only major concern is for cruising drone. Well, and improved performance due to less restriction. I know that the real gains come in conjunction with other mods, but might as well lay the groundwork. And I do like me some five-point-oh rumbliness. :D
 
And we've got more trouble.

Was driving along, when the engine started acting a little funny. I was on my way home anyway, so I figured I'd check codes sometime. Sometime never came, but an important errand did, so I chanced it. It still ran terrible, and the check engine light came on as I pulled into the driveway.

Just now pulled codes, and it would seem I have a gremlin, as the codes don't follow the usual pattern.

First, to get this out of the way: jumpered the test connector per the instructions, turned key on with the clutch in, stick wobbling freely, and parking brake on. Held the clutch firmly in the whole time.

I started out with three really rapid flashes. No 11, but a 21 and a 24, repeated. Then a pause, and then 31, 41, 91, and 96, repeated. Then nothing.

Starting the car was interesting. I'm used to it stalling once on cold start, but this time it would simply die every time it tried to lower the idle immediately after the startup surge. Sometimes it would flash a 4 after stalling, and sometimes it would throw out different sets of codes. On one run, it put out 13, 21, 41, and 91. On another, it also put out 18 and 13. Sometimes, the idle at high RPMs would be smooth for a sec before dying, and sometimes it would run pretty rough.

After a few attempts, both turning the key off at stall and just restarting after stall, I finally got it to run for more than a second. It seemed to be pretty smooth at higher RPMs (1500 and higher), but at 1000 it was really not happy. Still, it stayed running and did something like a KOER test, then flashed these codes: 12, 21, 94, 44. It repeated them once.

I didn't try a cylinder balance test.

Codes 44 and 94 are no surprise; at one time, they were the only codes I threw. So the smog pump is definitely on the list to fix. The rest is new to me.

Nothing else seems weird. It doesn't have any new leaks. (Which I think is awesome about this car; it's never leaked at all except for the fuel leak it had when I bought it, which is now fixed.) One of the tail pipes dripped out a little clear water, which seems normal. I couldn't see what the exhaust color was. There was a little exhaust smell, but that's nothing new given the fun state of the exhaust right around the cats.

Anyway, any help appreciated. From reading other posts, it sounds like I need the handy-dandy @jrichker "what to do if you can't pull codes" checklist to see if something is wreaking havoc with the computer. I'm also curious if you all think the codes are meaningful, given the other oddities.