Progress Thread Getting In Over My Head: '89 Gt Hatch: End Of The Road

[A5literMan]

My general answer is...yes an improper cable adjustment can cause it to pop out. Also if it had an aftermarket shifter,they can pop out also,if not adjusted correctly. I never had one pop out of first though? Mine did it in second and wouldn't let me downshift from 3rd to 2nd without holding it in gear. It would clunk,bang and basically try to throw it into neutral. I know mine is jacked...synchros are my guess.

 

[LiquidStangs]

Hmm. That would be par for the course on this transmission thing. The guy I bought the car from was the guy who put in the quadrant and cable; he runs a shop, which led me to figure he knew what he was doing. And the other shop went right to "you need a new transmission". It's possible the whole mess could have been avoided if the second shop had just tried adjusting the cable before condemning the tranny. Unless I uncover a surprise when I get this main shaft apart, it's likely I paid a chunk of money to swap a perfectly good transmission for a marginal one.



Oh, well. Live and learn, I guess. I am learning a lot tinkering with this tranny, and hopefully it'll be even better than it was once I get it back together. We can dream, right?

 

[LiquidStangs]

Time to sweep out the crickets.

After playing the clutch manufacturer and Amazon off each other for a while, I managed to make them hate me enough that they paid me to go away. So I've got an appointment with the tranny shop next week to, hopefully, put an end to that part of the story.

Beyond that, it might be a bit before any more progress happens. It's been cold in central Indiana. I've also learned that, when people learn you've taken up automotive tinkering for a hobby, they tend to find things for you to do. So it seems I have a backlog to clear out now on the few warm days that pass by.

 

[LiquidStangs]

Another update: since I have my appointment with the tranny shop tomorrow, it only makes sense that it would have issues starting.

No click, no crank, no start. I've tested the battery multiple ways, and while I don't think it's quite up to par, it's not the problem. I also used one of those Wal-Mart jump-start batteries, with no luck.

I do think I've got it narrowed to the starter solenoid or one of its inputs (clutch switch, ignition, something like that). Shorting the starter does get it to crank. I had a good look at the ignition switch when I was fixing the turn signals, and it looks recently replaced and isn't coming apart. No idea about the clutch switch, except it hasn't been touchy to this point. Of course, the starter solenoid looks fine to me, which is probably more about me not knowing what to look for.

So, question: what are some good tests to tell what the problem really is? None of the parts are going to break the bank, but I really don't want to spend my day driving between various parts stores, especially since some of the parts only seem to be available on the other side of town.

Or am I overlooking something else?

 

[stykthyn]

I've never broken open a wc t5 but a harmonic balancer puller worked like a champ when I rebuilt the 5spd in my jeep.

 

[stykthyn]

With the car in neutral try bridging the poles on the solenoid with a screw driver.

 

[LiquidStangs]

With the car in neutral try bridging the poles on the solenoid with a screw driver.

That's how I shorted the starter and got it to crank.

 

[stykthyn]

If it starts.by bridging the poles your starter switch or relay are suspect.

 

[90sickfox]

You need to know if you're getting power to the signal wire at the solenoid first. A test light or multimeter will work. If it gets power to the signal wire then the solenoid is bad. Then check the clutch switch for power in and out...power in no out then that switch is bad. Check ignition switch...I think its red wire w/ light blue stripe. (I think) if no power from ignition the the ignition switch is bad.

 

[LiquidStangs]

Just came in, somewhat cold but triumphant! It starts again. Many thanks to everyone who helped with their suggestions and feedback.

@stykthyn and @90sickfox got me on the right track. It turned out to be the clutch safety switch. The switch part was fine, but there's a little plastic clip on one end of the rod that goes through the switch. It's supposed to allow the switch to be adjusted to your clutch pedal's play. In my case, it was "adjusted" all the way out, and moved freely up and down the rod. That meant that the actual switch part couldn't engage no matter how hard you pushed the clutch in. I ended up replacing the part, which I probably could have rigged in some way to get working, but oh well. There's no sense rigging up some half-bad workaround that fails on you at just the wrong moment.

I also happen to have a multimeter that can't read volts. That made for some head-scratching.

Here's a tip for diagnosing this problem that I haven't seen discussed anywhere:

I have one of those logic-safe test lights from Harbor Freight that lights up green when you touch a ground, and red when you touch 12V power. When poking at the connectors for the clutch safety switch, I discovered that the ignition switch connects the starter wire to ground when the key isn't in the start position. This made it easy to check my wiring after replacing the switch. I took the signal wire off the starter solenoid and hooked it to my probe, propped it so I could see it inside the car, and then went inside the car and pushed in the clutch. When the new switch engaged, my test light lit green, indicating a good ground. At that point, I knew I had a good connection going from the starter solenoid all the way back to the ignition switch.

Had I known that at the beginning, I could have identified a wiring issue right away, instead of spending quality time with the starter and starter solenoid, and wondering how in the world my battery could run the headlights fine while measuring 0V.

So, tomorrow I get to put the dash back together (because I needed the practice, doncha know) and drive it over to finish up this defective clutch thing.

 

[90sickfox]

Glad you're getting it fixed. I'll help anyone if I can. This is what these forums are for. Glad to know you figured it out.

 

[LiquidStangs]

Quick update:

It's back from getting the clutch swapped out, and it still squeaks. At this point, I think I'm done with this shop. Since I can stop the squeak by slightly pressing in the clutch pedal, I'm assuming I can adjust the cable to put a hair bit of tension on the throwout bearing and stop the squeak. I seem to remember that solution being proposed in other threads. If that doesn't do it, I'm going to wait until my T5 rebuild is done before doing anything else with it. If I wear out the TOB and input shaft in the meantime, then so be it.

Had it parked on the street in a way I don't usually park it, and noticed something. The driver's side front wheel has been rubbing on the ground effect and otherwise been giving me issues, and I even removed the ground effect to try and alleviate it. Seeing it parked, I noticed that the wheel isn't centered in the wheel well. It's forward a bit, which would make it closer to the ground effect I took out. I'm wondering what that could be. Suspension, or a body issue?

On a more positive note, it was Mustang club night, and I drove the '89. Still can't take bumps at all (haven't swapped the springs and dampers yet). But, on some smoother stretches on the way home, I opened it up a bit more than I've dared so far. Even skipping third, and avoiding every pavement seam and little rock, it was quite fun. That engine has always been the solid part of this car, and tonight, it was flexing a little bit. Man, do I have to get that suspension and tranny done.

But that will have to wait. The '05 is on jack stands in the garage awaiting brakes and a pinion seal, and my mother-in-law's Kia is next, and maybe my son's Honda after that. Taking up auto tinkering as a hobby? Just tell your family, and you'll have no end of opportunities.

 

[LiquidStangs]

So, it's been a month. I haven't disappeared, but the garage has been taken up by:

• My wife's '05 GT, now with a new pinion seal and rear brake pads and rotors.
• The son's Honda Civic. He had a blowout on the road going to visit his girlfriend and ended up 20 feet from the highway. Fortunately, both him and the car were unharmed (besides the wheel, obviously). The car he drives had super-low-profile tires, and he doesn't race, so off with the old rims and tires and on with junkyard stock rims and new tires. Oh, and an oil change.
• The mother-in-law's Kia Sportage. New brake pads all around.

But now all that is done, and the '89 is ready to take its rightful place on the jack stands.

The wife has actually done more work on it than I have:

If you look closely, you can just make out where the "Faster Than A Heartbeat" sticker used to be. She also started pulling out the places where the tint was bubbling. Believe it or not, the visibility is better this way, because the bubbles weren't quite transparent. She got some tint remover spray to help, and it appears to have had a delayed effect on parts of the tint, so it looks like we might be able to pull some more of it off.

Besides that, I have suspension parts in one corner of the garage and the old T5, still partially disassembled, on a table. It needs the Surging Idle Checklist treatment, and the gas tank is still iffy. Empty = one notch under half full on the gauge, and I don't dare fill it up, or it starts dripping gas. Oh, and the locked up passenger power lock actuator still keeps people from opening that door from the inside, which makes my wife nervous to ride in it--as if the rest didn't. Isn't it great to have choices?

 

[LiquidStangs]

When last we heard from my old transmission, it was partially disassembled on a table in my garage. It's still partially disassembled, but now it's "as disassembled as it gets". The main shaft is totally apart, and I'm planning to leave the cluster shaft alone, because it appears to be in great shape and has no end play. "One challenge at a time" seems to be a prudent rule, even if it might be good to swap out the bearings while it's apart.

One question appears to have been resolved. I was wondering if I even needed all the transmission reworking, given how good things looked in this tranny. It appears that I did. Here are first and second gear, sitting next to each other with their synchro assemblies:

It might be hard to see, but there's a gap between the synchro teeth and the gear teeth on second (on the left), and no gap on first (on the right). If my sources are correct, that indicates a worn-out first gear synchro, which can cause the tranny to pop out of gear. Spinning them in place confirms it even more, as second "grabs" in a way that first doesn't. I suppose it's weirdly comforting that I was doomed to tread this path from the moment I bought the car.

In better news, first gear looks to be in decent shape:

I know that's just part of the gear, but that's what things look like all around. The 1-2 slider looks equally good, as do the rest of the gears (which weren't giving me any trouble before). So, I should just be out the cost of a rebuild kit to get this going. I'm wondering if it's possible to omit the cluster shaft bearings from the kit, and whether doing so saves any money.

 

[stykthyn]

Yep. New syncro time. That 1-2 cluster damage is fairly common. Mine has it and pops out if I don't hold it in gear when stomp on it.

 

[A5literMan]

Mine is finally coming apart this week also. Hopefully just syncros...?

 

[LiquidStangs]

Yep. New syncro time. That 1-2 cluster damage is fairly common. Mine has it and pops out if I don't hold it in gear when stomp on it.

Mine was farther gone; I couldn't even hold it in gear.

 

[LiquidStangs]

Anyone want a front spring? Better call quick; it gets smaller every time I move it.

 

[LiquidStangs]

And I think I've found out why the poor car hit bumps so hard:

Yes, that's the rest of the spring peeking out from behind the so-called isolator. Worse, it appears the remainder of the spring is stuck hard on the control arm. I can stick a pry bar in there and lean on it.

Anyone have any tips for getting that loose?

 

[mikestang63]

And I think I've found out why the poor car hit bumps so hard:

Yes, that's the rest of the spring peeking out from behind the so-called isolator. Worse, it appears the remainder of the spring is stuck hard on the control arm. I can stick a pry bar in there and lean on it.

Anyone have any tips for getting that loose?

ole smokey liquid wrench will get that sucker out of there.. Try a propane torch and some PB blaster.