Getting rid of the TF street heat, and goin Cobra

[Highbredcloud]

Stuck with it? Nah not really.....I wont even be running a 302 based motor. I could care less about your combos and how many times u have dealt with Ed. Im all about having a fast daily driver with great power from idle to about 6k or so and thats not what you have,how fast is your car btw?

And those packages from FTI go beyond just the plain old performer...they have people running the RPM's, RPM II's, ported performers, and ya know what even TFS intakes. If you redesign the cam to work with the bigger intakes, they will perform just as well. But you know what, some guys are so obsessed with "low end torque" that they are willing to run slower on the track. But we are beating a dead horse cause you seem pretty stuck in your ways.

The point is, is that if what you say is "true", then why are there people running VERY well with these intakes? I guess they must be cheating or something because if something sucks, i dont expect it to succeed. Maybe you dont like the looks, or even the design, but none the less, the design WORKS. Plenty of guys have their brand preference, its just a shame they must shoot down other products...even when the products WORK.

And one other thing, could you explain what sucks about the upper intake? What sucks about it that doesnt suck on the cobra or Edel? (this isnt trying to be a jack ass, i really want to know )

Just like I thought...you're defending something you have...I too would be upset if all of a sudden someone told me the truth.

Why don't you call one of those people that you mentioned earlier and ask them on what they think of the TFS street/track heat intakes...and see what they say...since I am by no means an engineer...

The only thing the TFS intakes have going for themselves is the price tag!

 

[thumper460]

Agreed... there are other things wrong.. Have the car checked out first!! and if there is a good PERFORMANCE Ford shop , go there!! and always remember to KISS !! ( Keep It Simple Stupid) MOST all the time it is the small basics that will cause all the problems!!

As for the shops that you have asked avout the cam advance, and there being NO differance?? I feel they have mislead you!! One of the oldest hot rod trick in the books is the cam phasing!! Check the ICL on the cam you have!! Try and get it set in at 104* and you WILL see a lot of low end gain!! with NO top end loss!! See a few guys that did it and ROCK!! I know it is a B cam, but the idea is the same!!

Again.. befor you do anything,, check it all over again!!

You were right, the B cam, advanced 2 degrees on 1.7 RR's was the way to go. 1st of all the idol is mean, sounds much meaner than even bigger cams. I'm kind of getting sick of people always asking me "what's in that thing". 2nd of all low end tq is also good. Mine is a daily driver, can't afford too much bottom end loss.

------------

Advancing the Cam !!
ya i first had it installed straight up first. But then pulled it all apart and put to 4degrees advance....WOW a world of a differance. all my stang buddys pulled theres apart to and did the same.
the car is completely debadged no stickers no nothing but the rummber of one chambers.
thanks again.
~Andy~
12.69 @ 105 mph
Ported E7s
FMS B cam +4 advanced

Just me..........................

Thumper

 

[90Notch]

The difference between the Street and Cobra intake is minimal! Yes the Street has slightly larger runners but not enough to even be concerned about. More importantly the runner lengths are almost identical...this is really where the intake design comes into play. Listen to the others on here and have the thing tuned before making changes...it's not the intake!

If your concerned about losing low end removing the 210/218 cam for a 221/225 (whether installed 4 advanced or not) is not helping your situation. And if you do have to install that cam that advanced you picked the wrong cam for your setup.

 

[HardmanGT]

The fact that you still have not degreed your cam to verify the installation really pisses me off. For weeks members have been telling you to verify and instead you go and chase every other nonsensical phantom. Then you tell us we are wrong to boot and that we are only giving you our opinions. Go waste your money but stop wasting our time.

This is a joke

 

[nmcgrawj]

Just like I thought...you're defending something you have...I too would be upset if all of a sudden someone told me the truth.

Why don't you call one of those people that you mentioned earlier and ask them on what they think of the TFS street/track heat intakes...and see what they say...since I am by no means an engineer...

The only thing the TFS intakes have going for themselves is the price tag!

You are a joke. So you say they suck...but you cant even explain WHY they suck? Defending something i have? Man o man...one day you will learn not to jump to conclusions. I WILL HAVE the TFS R intake for the 351w which you have already said is good. I am defending products that i see that work that are getting shot down by guys that say they suck, yet can not explain why. Why dont you list your combo(s) and your times with maybe even a dyno sheet since you know so much about this stuff

Now like i said, go ahead and EXPLAIN why these intakes suck....What about the upper intake that is so bad? Why is the cobra "So much better"?

The fact that you still have not degreed your cam to verify the installation really pisses me off. For weeks members have been telling you to verify and instead you go and chase every other nonsensical phantom. Then you tell us we are wrong to boot and that we are only giving you our opinions. Go waste your money but stop wasting our time.

This is a joke

He doesnt see that it doesnt matter what cam you have, without it being degreed in, that cam card tells you nothing. Its a "general consensus" that advancing gives low end power and retarding gives top end, but that is not guaranteed. It just re-arranges the valve events and most of the time that is what happends. It depends on the cam grind.

Like i said above, this guy knows everything already so there is no point in trying to help. When you come to ask questions, you need to be open to what people are going to say, or is it that you were just looking for a stamp of approval on your decision

 

[crunchie12268]

wow, things are getting crazy in here.

I agree with whoever said that the dynos don't really give you the whole story, I just used the 347 example because I figured that is what you were looking for. Someone also said that the Trickflow was too small for that 347 and that is why it dropped the torque, well, is the GT40 big enough? I thought it was a bit small for that combo also.... but im not going to go into that.

nmcgrawj: I think you are a little sensitive, you are starting **** with people and getting all defensive over something stupid. and I am not going to rip off everything and check my cam degree because I might as well change the damn cam, and replacing all the gaskets might be a WASTE of money.

I PERSONALLY, think the intake sucks, and whoever said that idle-5500rpms is what they are suppose to operate at... well, they do operate at that RPM, but not good, I don't think they are telling the truth, they could have manipulated any element to make that claim.... I don't believe it. There is a lot of things I could go into arguing over but its not worth it, I got your guys opinions, and I appreciate it.

also nmcgrawj, I don't know what the deal is, but I am not expecting tons of power, I am not really loosing anything, I am experimenting on my own. I can't believe what the companies say, because they claim everything so abroad that it could apply to as many people as possible. Everyone is trying to make money, every companies intake is the BEST. But I have found NO hard evidence on what will be the best for me..... it "should" be making power, but it isn't and I think this is why, I have ruled it down to this the cam or the heads. I have checked and re-checked everything.

TO ADDRESS THE CAM ISSUE

I have talked to people, like thumper460, my friends, called places. and people have told me all different.... thumper460 said to take the TFS 1 and advance it 4*, which I plan on doing in the near future. I am NOT going to rip off my timing cover and all to check the cam, because I don't have the facilities or the paitence. If this doesn't work then I am going to put in the TFS 1, and do the 4*.

I don't know why everyone has to be *******s about it.... it is something so stupid compared to other things just take a deep breath.

 

[crunchie12268]

You are a joke. So you say they suck...but you cant even explain WHY they suck? Defending something i have? Man o man...one day you will learn not to jump to conclusions. I WILL HAVE the TFS R intake for the 351w which you have already said is good. I am defending products that i see that work that are getting shot down by guys that say they suck, yet can not explain why. Why dont you list your combo(s) and your times with maybe even a dyno sheet since you know so much about this stuff

Now like i said, go ahead and EXPLAIN why these intakes suck....What about the upper intake that is so bad? Why is the cobra "So much better"?


He doesnt see that it doesnt matter what cam you have, without it being degreed in, that cam card tells you nothing. Its a "general consensus" that advancing gives low end power and retarding gives top end, but that is not guaranteed. It just re-arranges the valve events and most of the time that is what happends. It depends on the cam grind.

Like i said above, this guy knows everything already so there is no point in trying to help. When you come to ask questions, you need to be open to what people are going to say, or is it that you were just looking for a stamp of approval on your decision

son of a bitch, you guys are so damn tempermental


How about this...... I will degree the cam, or at least tell you I have... OKAY!!

I was looking for a "stamp of approval" but didn't really get it, is that a bad thing or something? It helps to get an approval from you guys, but the only time I will get one is if I agree with you, but im not. I will do what I want to, and if I find some valuable evidence I will change my decision, but you guys are basing it off of dyno results... which are "always correct" I am going to do it first hand.

 

[nmcgrawj]

LOL sensitive? Starting ****? Since when was asking for someone who was talking smack themselves to back up claims they made starting ****? I didnt know i was...maybe next time i will be more "polite" lol Dude, no one really cares. Please dont try to take typed words as someone being upset. When people make claims and dont back them up, well then, they look stupid.

People think people get upset on these internet forums...i hope people really dont. Its your car, your decision, your time, your money. Just trying to help and to show you that the intake doesnt "suck" cause people use it with great results on similar combos. No one said the TFS intake is the "best". We just said it works. We just tried to show you that a intake is made for a specific RPM to operate it...you CANT change that on an intake. A cam is also made for a specific RPM but you CAN change it and do it on mistake, we tried to show you that, but you dont think its possible. All is good.

I would think that it is down on power if a honda keeps up with it

Anyway, i hope no feelings are hurt...if they are, grow up.

 

[90Notch]

If this doesn't work then I am going to put in the TFS 1, and do the 4*.

 

[Biggeley]

this intake makes power above 4000 rpms, but until then it is a stump, maybe this intake works for people who operate at higher rpms, but I need bottom end, and simply put, there is none. and I can drive, go enough at least.....

When I was running stock heads (and the full complement of other bolt-ons) I switched from a stock intake to a trick flow street heat.. I didn't feel any loss of bottom end but felt additional punch in the 3500+ range. I'm now running the street heat with a set of edelbrock 60379 heads, and the bottom end does not seem any less either.

The street heat is a good intake.. Good as the rest of the street intakes (including the cobra). Dont' be knocking it because you can't get your car to run right. As with the rest of the people in the board, I doubt you are going to solve your problem with an intake swap.

 

[Biggeley]

I will be the first to say that the TFS intakes suck...(except for thte TFS R)...with just an intake swap...from a Cobra to a TFS street heat...the car lost low end...500RPM or so...,However, I don't necessarly think that this is all of your problems...check the compression as stated earlier...see how the cam is installed...check the rocker arm geometry...etc...

More crap from highbredcloud.. Who also thinks that running a stock cam with aftermarket heads is a stupid idea.

 

[Biggeley]

AND yes...I will say this again...TFS intakes suck...primarly because of the upper intake design...the lower actually flows..

Care to explain in technical terms why?

Yeah...they suck except for the TFS R intake...and can you tell me where I made the reference to the Edelbrock intakes in my prior post?

Go to http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/

under the "read media articles"
follow it to

Super Ford February 2000

"Intake the Power...Sorting through the Streetable 5.0 Intakes on AFM's DynoJet"...see how "they run hand in hand..."

YOU know what is ridiculous? Instead of real world experience advice...I have to sit here and read your nonsese and than I have to proove my point by surfing the web and proving my self correct just for people like you to finally realize that maybe and just maybe people are to ignorant to look past their denial...enjoy the reading.

You can't really conclude much from the test unless you understand all of the parameters of the test. You gotta look at total intake flow, cam specs, head specs, and exhaust specs. I'm pretty sure you haven't done this -- I'll admit I haven't examined it in great detail either.. Nor do I have all the technical knowlege of a real combo builder like the Curtis's and Rawls of the world.

A couple of things I notice. The performer and cobra intakes present an intake restriction to the system whereas the rest of the intakes do not. With the given combo, this resulted in better low and mid-rpm torque.

The other intakes flow at least as much as the intake port of the head. All of these (rpm, street heat, track heat, systemax, etc) made about the same torque numbers in the lower and mid-rpm range. The shorter runner intakes (systemax, rpm, trackheat) extended the upper rpm torque of the combination.

What can you conclude? Well the streetheat was not well-matched to the combination. It seemed to lose low-end on the combo because of its higher flowing capability, and didn't make the same top-end torque because of its longer runners.

Is it a bad intake? Definitely not. Just not optimal in this test of parts.

 

[UnderPressureGT]

The only info i can put here is that, my motor was completely stock with a a trim blower with 7 psi of boost.... i later added a track heat intake by itself... keep in mind its the track heat and not the street.. You would assume that the intake is too big for a stock headed 302 and i would lose alot of bottom end...... My personal experience with it, the first run i took down the road, the bottom end wasnt BAD at all.. not as bad as people would say.. but the top end pulled rediculously in the boost... I dont thinkl an intake swap will fix the problem also..

Just my thoughts.... i love this manifold and if time comes where its too small, i will either port it, or go with the R series...

 

[Highbredcloud]

More crap from highbredcloud.. Who also thinks that running a stock cam with aftermarket heads is a stupid idea.

who are you and what do you want? And yes I think that running a stock cam with aftermarket heads is definately NOT taking the heads to their full potential...and what does that exactly have to do with this thread? You even have a Mustang? Ever do work to it...YOURSELF? You're very quick to run your mouth at others son...Everything I speak of...is from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE...I am not one of those...guys who knows a guy whose car did this or that...Its either my cars or the cars I've help build that my experience comes from...

 

[Highbredcloud]

Care to explain in technical terms why?




You can't really conclude much from the test unless you understand all of the parameters of the test. You gotta look at total intake flow, cam specs, head specs, and exhaust specs. I'm pretty sure you haven't done this -- I'll admit I haven't examined it in great detail either.. Nor do I have all the technical knowlege of a real combo builder like the Curtis's and Rawls of the world.

A couple of things I notice. The performer and cobra intakes present an intake restriction to the system whereas the rest of the intakes do not. With the given combo, this resulted in better low and mid-rpm torque.

The other intakes flow at least as much as the intake port of the head. All of these (rpm, street heat, track heat, systemax, etc) made about the same torque numbers in the lower and mid-rpm range. The shorter runner intakes (systemax, rpm, trackheat) extended the upper rpm torque of the combination.

What can you conclude? Well the streetheat was not well-matched to the combination. It seemed to lose low-end on the combo because of its higher flowing capability, and didn't make the same top-end torque because of its longer runners.

Is it a bad intake? Definitely not. Just not optimal in this test of parts.

lol...you're too funny...re-read that article...only thing that was change out of the whole combo were the intakes...That was one of the best comparison I've seen...if you've seen better please share...This article concludes that the TFS intakes lack low end...as comared to the GT-40 style intakes...which explains the loss of low end from a Cobra to a Street heat...and YES this is my personal experience...

 

[Highbredcloud]

You are a joke. So you say they suck...but you cant even explain WHY they suck? Defending something i have? Man o man...one day you will learn not to jump to conclusions. I WILL HAVE the TFS R intake for the 351w which you have already said is good. I am defending products that i see that work that are getting shot down by guys that say they suck, yet can not explain why. Why dont you list your combo(s) and your times with maybe even a dyno sheet since you know so much about this stuff

NO I just don't car to explain...plus I'm not an engineer...Have you ever held the upper TFS street heat intake in your hands before? If so you might have seen that clever design TFS engineers had when they made the cross section 15inch long...not too mention the way air has to traval over "speed bumps"...lol...So many better intakes out there that are better the the TFS street heat...

examples:

Performer
Cobra/GT-40

great TQ down low...and with the lowers ported the potential of those long runner intakes may even give the short runner intakes a run for their money...

you know what else sux...:

BBK TB's
Eddelbrock TB's
MAC PRODUCTS
BBK's new line of poor quality headers
MARCH RAM AIR system
B&M TQ converters
B&M shifters
FlowTech Products

should I keep going? you get what you pay for...

 

[crunchie12268]

LOL sensitive? Starting ****? Since when was asking for someone who was talking smack themselves to back up claims they made starting ****? I didnt know i was...maybe next time i will be more "polite" lol Dude, no one really cares. Please dont try to take typed words as someone being upset. When people make claims and dont back them up, well then, they look stupid.

People think people get upset on these internet forums...i hope people really dont. Its your car, your decision, your time, your money. Just trying to help and to show you that the intake doesnt "suck" cause people use it with great results on similar combos. No one said the TFS intake is the "best". We just said it works. We just tried to show you that a intake is made for a specific RPM to operate it...you CANT change that on an intake. A cam is also made for a specific RPM but you CAN change it and do it on mistake, we tried to show you that, but you dont think its possible. All is good.

I would think that it is down on power if a honda keeps up with it

Anyway, i hope no feelings are hurt...if they are, grow up.

I have said repeatadly that it is my personal opinion, I am not blowing up or getting "sensitive". You are voicing your own opinion, but in a way that I would say is immature. That's great if the intake works for you. I have no evidence that the intake swap will work for me or against me. You can't give me dyno results and stuff and expect me to go from there. I am really just trying this based on my opinion of what is happening with my car.

and no there isn't any feelings being hurt, but if you look at the forum here, people are freaking out over what I said and responding like something is defineatly wrong with everything else BUT my intake. I know I am the one under attack here because I started the thread, but if I need to grow up, then I think alot of other people in here do to. I think I am one of the few staying calm here.

nmcgraw: you are fighting with more than just me, you are getting into it with other people like a little kid. That is where I am calling the "**** talking," sorry if I was wrong...

 

[Grn92LX]

Greg, you must have missed this AFM test where the TFS street heat beat up on the cobra http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/media/trick.htm Follow the curves carefully and you'll see the street heat matches the cobra under 3000 and beats it in the mid range and up top. Besides, if it sucks so bad, why did my 2 friends run 11.0 and 11.4 with it at 121 and 125? Why is my other friend making 323rwhp on a off the shelf edelbrock headed 306 combo with a TF street heat? Don't you make under 300rwhp?? My TFS street heat sucked so bad i'm probably near a full second faster in the 1/4 mile than you

Crunchie, why don't you dyno your car now and dyno after the cobra intake swap and see what you gain/lose? Unless your swapping the cam, then forget it.

 

[crunchie12268]

Greg, you must have missed this AFM test where the TFS street heat beat up on the cobra http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/media/trick.htm Follow the curves carefully and you'll see the street heat matches the cobra under 3000 and beats it in the mid range and up top. Besides, if it sucks so bad, why did my 2 friends run 11.0 and 11.4 with it at 121 and 125? Why is my other friend making 323rwhp on a off the shelf edelbrock headed 306 combo with a TF street heat? Don't you make under 300rwhp?? My TFS street heat sucked so bad i'm probably near a full second faster in the 1/4 mile than you

Crunchie, why don't you dyno your car now and dyno after the cobra intake swap and see what you gain/lose? Unless your swapping the cam, then forget it.

i would if the dyno didn't cost so much. What if I was getting the GT40, then would this conversation change at all?

 

[crunchie12268]

greenlx.... if your friends are running that fast, then im sure this intake works great. But i am not using that much air... doesn't your complaint kind of support my theory here?