Getting rid of the TF street heat, and goin Cobra

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by crunchie12268, May 24, 2005.

  1. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all"
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,547
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Well I read MOST (yes the CAPS is off of Jay Allen's form of typing) - I wonder where some got that idea :rlaugh:

    Anyways...I'm going to get in the mix (as I so often can/do)...because their is some guys I recognize in here. :nice:

    First off to Crunchie - I really don't think the intake is your whole problem (sorry to reiterate what others have said), though there are better intakes out there.

    The reason people run the TF's like they do is very simple. The price...it is in the same category as the Performers and those of the like but for a cheaper price and a bigger promise. So why do you think people use them? Price.

    There are several that are brand bias...and some that truely aren't.

    I get sick and tired of "some" in here not posting all the info that needs to be typed out or how some have convienient amnesia? (They know who I'm talking to...really just one). Quit posting general and bias info. If one is going to claim power numbers then post ALL (yes courtesy of Jay Allen's form of typing) mods that helped attain the numbers.

    When one puts an intake was "hand and hand" under 3,000rpm...there is a HUGE (yes, jay allen again) underlying curve underthere of power to be had. Comparing two torque numbers at 3k is not a very test worthy way to put down some numbers. Try daily driver rpms...I don't rack my rpms up there when just cruising around...and I don't go WOT to 3k either...

    There are better intakes out there...not all are created equal.

    It is best not to have to make a cam or intake (etc.) to take up the slack of to big or to small a part.

    Those running the bigger intakes (systemax/rpm II/victors) on their 302's...I have to ask them or anyone taking up for them - Is this their daily driver? Does it drive like a Performer/cam matched/heads car "below 3,000rpm"?

    It isn't about "matching your combo to the intake"...but matching it to what the driver is wanting. A nice quick daily driver or a quicker track runner with the same bottomend?

    Exactly. :D

    Degreeing a cam is ideal but isn't just compeletely necessary for a OTS cam that has the same casting for years. Production tolerances are pretty tight...

    Don't call people names like "idiot". Name-calling just shows a loss of control. Save that for elsewhere.

    It's about time for a :lock: Let's see where it goes...
     
    #81
  2. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all"
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,547
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Horrible examples there...just horrible.

    I bet you could run 140mph with a stock intake if you add enough power to overcome the restriction...

    The 306 you speak of is a higher compression: 10:5:1...

    Why do you continue to get convienient amnesia????

    Again I ask why?

    What does him being a full second slower than you have anything to do with, well anything? Does it make him inferior to you?

    Quit posting misleading/bias info...

    Oh and you weren't shifting early on your old combo. It was probably just about right...where should you have been shifting 6200rpm? Not likely..because Ed doubtfully didn't setup your cam (nor did you degree it for those requirements) to shift that high and still pull power at that high of an rpm.

    By the way...you run lean gave you better power :D Not an excuse...
     
    #82
  3. Grn92LX

    Grn92LX Fidanza Man!
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,622
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    New York
    100% wrong (as usual when you guess about me) I shifted my 2nd combo at 6000. My first combo I shifted early (5700) Please don't tell me what I should or should't have done. Do you know what I discussed with Ed? And 18:1 on a dyno jet in some spots adds more power??

    Please leave me alone, please I ask you nicely. Please stop posting and making everything seem as if your way is the "only" way. I wish stangnet was like instant messanger when you could block the annoyance :D Do you list the pro's and con's about sex to your GF when you wants to have sex with you? :p
     
    #83
  4. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all"
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,547
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    Arkansas
    That proves my point...you never gave specifics on which "combo" your talking about... :rlaugh:

    Your very inconsistent and usually make pretty bad arguments...there pretty easy to defend - I'll put it that way :D

    You can block me...I can't remember a way...but you can do it...I'm being serious. I just can't remember. I don't care if you see my post at all (that is what you get to block)...I just want whoever you are responding to, to understand what actually goes on...not in your "bigger is better" fantasy land :nice:
     
    #84
  5. Highbredcloud

    Highbredcloud New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Palos Hills, IL
    EXACTLY! :nice: somebody is paying attention!
     
    #85
  6. Biggeley

    Biggeley New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Funny how you preach that the camshaft is the heart of the engine and that valve timing is critical to peak performance. *HOWEVER* you are quoting data from a test where they threw in an off-the shelf camshaft and then compare performance of intakes that change the significantly alter the intake capability of the system. Wouldn't changing intake/exhaust relationships of a combination require a different camshaft for optimal performance, then? :rolleyes:

    I don't see how you can conclude anything about the test when the test doesn't take into consideration the first point that you preach. What you can conclude is that "Street Heat sucks dead monkey nuts" (or however you so eloquently phrased it) on the combination tested in the magazine. Build that same combination and the results are repeatable. ONce you change one component in the system the results could be skewed an entirely different way.

    You really do show your ignorance here on the topic. Come back when you read a few more internet articles.
     
    #86
  7. 90Notch

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Messages:
    1,046
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Westwood, MA & yes it's killing me that I'm no
    "NO I just don't car to explain...plus I'm not an engineer...Have you ever held the upper TFS street heat intake in your hands before? If so you might have seen that clever design TFS engineers had when they made the cross section 15inch long...not too mention the way air has to traval over "speed bumps""

    I've held one and have yet to see these speed bumps, exactly where are they? Cross section is not 15" long the runner lenght is. TFS cross section is slightly larger than a Cobra but let me ask exactly what is wrong with 15" runner length? The lenght is there to mimic the stocker (as is the Cobra) and its sole purpose is to provide torque down low, which explains why these things make 300ft-lb stock & only 225hp. This all plays into the intake tuning so let me ask again...what is wrong with a 15" runner for a idle-5500 intake?

    I have also held a GT40 intake in my hands (not to mention used both) and will say that the TFS's runners are designed better, they are more even across all 8 and have straighter shots into the head.

    I am currently running a stock rebuild with home ported heads and TFS Street which replaced a stock intake (home ported lower) and although I have not dynoed it I can tell you that I lost nothing down low according to the butt meter. Tires break loose quicker/ssoner than they did before. This example is more extreme than the Cobra to Street.

    Cobra, GT40, Performer and Street all have 14"-15" runners so why do you discredit just the Street?

    Now this I totally agree with! Unless your modifying the computer theres no need to dyno unless you want to see the graphs.
     
    #87
  8. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN

    Work for Trickflow? Wow, so defending products that WORK means i must work for the company? Did i tell you that Edelbrock's suck? Did i tell you that cobra's suck? No, i just said that the TFS piece will WORK! Why? Because its been proven. It doesnt matter if i did it or not, the fact is that its been proven.

    Ahhh i got it, so since there are a million people who have good success with the intake, i cant speak about it since i havent had good success my self? So i guess i should stand by and let guys like you throw products into the dirt? I never said the TFS intake is the BEST, I never said that is the only way to run, i just tried to get across that it CAN get the job done. You were the guy who couldnt get the intake to work with your combo, does that mean it wont work with other combos? NO. Like you said, you arent an engineer so how can you tell another engineer that they did a terrible job? Seems like those same engineers did pretty well in TFS's other departments. Its funny you talk smack on "speed bumps" and then people post and say they have seen none.

    The other guy hit it right on the head which i tried to mention a couple posts back, if you change that test you did with another cam shaft or something, then you get totally different results. Its the whole combo that makes or breaks what you want out of it. You are right about the price of the intakes, that is one of the best things going for them, but since they are cheap, does that mean they suck? Different intakes will be the "best" in different situations with different combos.

    I think that with intakes in a comparable "classes", the cam is what will change how they perform down low. The intake charge is started in the collector of the header and what controls the exhaust? The cam.(ofcourse head size and head primary size affect it too :nice:)

    I apologize if people thought i was starting "stuff" with them, no offense meant to be taken. I was just wondering how someone says an intake sucks based off of their experience. I could begin to understand if no one had success with it, but A LOT of people do. Chill out and design your combo correctly.

    :flag:
     
    #88
  9. HardmanGT

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Thomaston, CT
  10. fiveohGT

    fiveohGT New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Fairfax Virginia

    :shrug:
     
    #90
  11. crunchie12268

    crunchie12268 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Manhattan, KS

    who's sensitive? :rlaugh:

    5spdGT: you made some good points, thanks... I appreciate you being one of the few people who come in here and actually helped.

    horseplay: The intake ports are slightly ported on the Cobra heads, but I didn't know thats were the power was being killed at. People are saying they bolt this intake up to their stock heads and notice power gains. I appreciate your .02 cents, I will look into that. Thanks

    90Notch: I guess it was wrong to say the TF Street Sucks, it was just a word to sum up my frustration with it. The Trickflow might have the same intake runners, but the ports are different... aren't they? I don't know, I have already bought the intake before I even started this thread. I am just going to check it and see what happens.

    Keep in mind everybody, I did not just assume that my power was being sacrificed from the intake. I have done many things to try and compensate for the power, valve springs and all were checked when I installed the cam.... I checked compression, vaccuum, FP, Timing, got an A/F gauge to see if I could tune it. I have just done some reading and talked to some friends of mine who all say the intake I have is just too much. So, for my mild combo, I brought the intake down a step to see if it would allow more power.... like it was said earlier, I don't wrap this thing out to 6000 all day, it is a daily driver, I need power off the line and up until 5k. I usually shift earlier than that even... I would have to rearrange my whole setup to including getting rid of the rev limiter just to get the power were this intake has it. I didn't loose more than 30 bucks on this whole thing and I think it may help, but if it doesn't then its 30 bucks... I will probably buy a TF stage 1 cam and advance it 4 degrees.

    Sorry for making a big deal out of this :flag:
     
    #91
  12. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Crunchie, why do you think people are taking stuff so seriously? I,along with everyone else,couldn't care less.

    Being sensitive=taking offense to words that are spoken. That should not be possible over teh internet, but for some it may be. Defending something = being sensitive? I think not.

    Good luck trying to get your car running right :nice: (seriously)
     
    #92
  13. tmoss

    tmoss Gettin Wired
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Messages:
    7,121
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Saint Louis, MO
    lots of guys smell like pee in here :p

    You can get most intakes that are not significantly different in cross section/length in design to work well on a combo if you select the right parts. Larger cross sections on mild combos probably won't make as much average numbers but they won't fall off the face of the planet either unless the combo is wrong. Have fun guys.
     
    #93
  14. Highbredcloud

    Highbredcloud New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Palos Hills, IL
    You're an idiot...the point of the test was to swap just the intakes NOT the whole combo...stick to the subject...ALL the intakes rather they were short runner or long runner used the same cam...heads, etc...How is it that other intakes did better in the long runner category...? Especially those that flow less than the TFS street? The TFS intakes seems to pull the most PEAK HP out of the long runner category...while others average more consistant power throughout the RPM band...So again...does PEAK HP make an intake better over an intake that has more usable powerband? I have personal experiece...what do you have...? u got S*IT...!
     
    #94
  15. crunchie12268

    crunchie12268 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Manhattan, KS
    I make a joke about you working at trick flow, and you bold face some words and throw in some sarcasm... to me that comes off as you getting mad and "taking offense," thats why I made the sensitive comment. But hey.... after you explained yourself I gotcha, im only 18, im alittle slow. :)

    Lets lock this baby up before Hibredcloud and Biggley start threatening each other with the old "i'll kick your ass thing"

    Thanks for your help guys.

    :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:
     
    #95
  16. WLDHRSE

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2001
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Elkton, MD
    Holy chit there's a lot of nothing happening in this thread.

    Mike, I know we have not talked in a while, and I would still like to meet you some day. But you ripped this kid a new pooper in your first reply, post #2, for no appearant reason. Do you not remember posting questions for about a year trying to find out why your car was so slow with your TFS combo. I stopped reading about it cuz it was the same thing over and over. And other people were posting the same exact type of responces that you gave this kid. Very uncool.

    Someone asked why people keep buying TFS. Price. They are a great "bargain" intake. They are like 20-30% cheaper than the Edelbrock intakes and only a little over half the cost of the Ford intakes. They don't perform as good as some (most) of the other intakes but in $$ per HP they are great.

    It cracks me up that people keep talking about matched combos. Not that that is incorrect, but that it appears most (not all) are refering to parts from the same manufacturer, instead of just parts meant to operate in the same RPM range. What I have found funny (and I have not paid much attention to this in a while), I remember reading a lot of magazine feature cars and track results and it always seemed like the guys that had Edel heads & TFS intakes OR TFS heads & Edel intakes usually had better numbers than similar cars with a complete TFS or Edel "package".


    Hey crunchie, you put a list of your combo in a post for people who "did not read your sig". Well I did read your sig and it says you have a 75mm Pro-M MAM. Then in your post you said you have a 76mm MAM which should be a C&L. Which is it? If you have a C&L on there, change it to a Pro-M and you will feel what you've been missing. I wont say the C&L is junk but they are more hit or miss than the E-cam. Some people rotate the C&L's 90 degrees and they work fine, but you're better off replacing it with a Pro-M. If you have a Pro-M, I don't know what to tell you other than what everyone else has said, unless there is a major defect in your TFS intake you will see no gain in installing a Cobra intake. Infact, you will probably lose more. The intake is not your problem, although I can appreciate you wanting to change it cuz it looks like a monkey butt.

    So which MAM do you have?

    Cliff :)
     
    #96
  17. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    I hope no one meant to have the same company...thats kinda lame. That would mean that a TFS stage 1 cam would work well with the TFS R intake and the Hi port heads...lol. Well to be clear, i was referring to having the components compliment eachother.

    Thats a good idea about the maf, although the ecams wouldnt be hit or miss if you degreed it.

    I never knew so many people disliked the TFS intakes...i like them, especially the black ones. The R series are just mean looking :flag:
     
    #97
  18. crunchie12268

    crunchie12268 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Manhattan, KS
    its pro m, sorry
     
    #98
  19. 5spd GT

    5spd GT "the 5.0 owns all"
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,547
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I agree...somehow that doesn't surprise me...nor does it others. He becomes very inconsistent and bias with "info" he gives...and I'm glad there is another to the list that notices this :nice: There for a little bit I thought I was one of 20 :shrug:

    Correctomundo :nice:

    Yeah mix and matching correctly will net nice gains...
     
    #99
  20. Biggeley

    Biggeley New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dear Inbredcloud,

    You still don't get it.. Well I'm tired or arguning with retards over the internet. Have a nice day Mr. Poop.
     
    #100

Share This Page