Got a reply from Whipple today about the S/C
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I can confirm that. I called them about two weeks ago because they have some 2006/7 Cobra info listed on their website (I'm not too sure about it's reliability) but they told me it would be a 5.4 S/C. Now I'm thinking I should have waited...lol.
The new Whipplecharger is supposed to turn between 500-550 RWHP on the 3-valve 4.6 and sell for $4500. Get in line, it starts ------------>HERE.
The new Whipplecharger is supposed to turn between 500-550 RWHP on the 3-valve 4.6 and sell for $4500. Get in line, it starts ------------>HERE.
Rootus
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PolkThug
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Rootus said:500-550 rwhp??? For about 5 seconds...
Dave
Dave, no need to be an @sshole. I'm just relaying what I was told by whipplecharger. They said 500-550 HP at the wheels at 6-7psi. I do not have dyno runs and I'm sure Whipple isn't going to release anything until they have the units for sale in February. Those #s seem a little high, but not unbelievable considering what '04 Cobras are doing with aftermarket twin-screws.
Rootus
Officially Addicted
I wasn't. I was laughing. This whole whipple thing is just getting out of hand.Wsmatau said:
That should be your first clue. 6-7 psi on a 300 horsepower motor under optimal conditions could get you to 440 horsepower (flywheel). If you want 500-550 at the wheels, you are going to need something more along the lines of 15-18 psi.
Cobras take a lot more than 6-7 psi to get to 500+ at the wheels. Stock boost is about 8 psi.
And comparing the 2005 GT to a 2004 Cobra is folly. Just because the Cobra can put down those numbers easily enough does not mean that the GT can do the same. The block on the GT is strong enough, but the rotating assembly is built for natural aspiration, not forced induction. The GT has what, 9.8:1 compression? You try putting 15 psi through that. I stand by my earlier estimate -- 5 seconds
. Now if you want to drop the compression to 8.5:1 and rebuild the engine with forged internals, *then* you can talk about making 500-550 rwhp with the GT. Remember that those power levels will also make short work of the 3650 tranny though, so add that to the list 
.IMO a realistic target for a Whipple supercharged GT (stock engine) is 375-425 rwhp. And save your pennies -- anybody who thinks they are just going to strap on a $5k whipple and be done with it is being overly optimistic. Horsepower is expensive.
Dave
I learned that lesson when I lost my '94 Cobra....lol.Rootus said:
Everything you are saying is true, but, the '04 Cobras that have Whipple/Kenne Bell superchargers are putting out 600+ RWHP. I don't thhink it is that big a stretch to approach 500 HP with the 3-valve. You are right that the internals in the '05 are not up to the '04 Cobra specs and probably shouldn't be pushed that hard. I don't have any experience with the new tranny and that is something I hadn't considered. After all the hassle I've had ordering this car, I'm thinking what I knew beforehand....I should just wait for the new Cobra.
I suppose I was overly optimistic with what Whipple told me. I'm interested to see.Wsmatau said:I learned that lesson when I lost my '94 Cobra....lol.
Everything you are saying is true, but, the '04 Cobras that have Whipple/Kenne Bell superchargers are putting out 600+ RWHP. I don't thhink it is that big a stretch to approach 500 HP with the 3-valve. You are right that the internals in the '05 are not up to the '04 Cobra specs and probably shouldn't be pushed that hard. I don't have any experience with the new tranny and that is something I hadn't considered. After all the hassle I've had ordering this car, I'm thinking what I knew beforehand....I should just wait for the new Cobra.
On another Mustang site (ModularFords I think) Dustin from Whipple stated something in the neighborhood of 430HP at the wheels. This makes sense as 430HP is about what you can do now with a PI heads 4.6. Keep in mind the PI mustangs have a smidge lower compression. As someone stated earlier it is the rotating assembly that holds this car back. And as he also stated you are going to need ~15lbs of boost to make in the 500HP range...and as he also said to get those numbers you are going to need to drop in a 8.5 CR forged rotating assembly to get there.
I have been trying to decide between an 05 GT and an 03-04 Cobra for months. I like the 05 GT but I can't get my mind around the 430HP ceiling, and the 600 RWHP+ (on race gas) for a Cobra sends tingles down my spine!
My present plan is to buy an 05 GT, drop a Whipple/KB blower on it and hope I blow the bottom end! ;-) That will force me to buy a 8.5 CR forged shortblock!
Rootus said:I wasn't. I was laughing. This whole whipple thing is just getting out of hand.
That should be your first clue. 6-7 psi on a 300 horsepower motor under optimal conditions could get you to 440 horsepower (flywheel). If you want 500-550 at the wheels, you are going to need something more along the lines of 15-18 psi.
Cobras take a lot more than 6-7 psi to get to 500+ at the wheels. Stock boost is about 8 psi.
And comparing the 2005 GT to a 2004 Cobra is folly. Just because the Cobra can put down those numbers easily enough does not mean that the GT can do the same. The block on the GT is strong enough, but the rotating assembly is built for natural aspiration, not forced induction. The GT has what, 9.8:1 compression? You try putting 15 psi through that. I stand by my earlier estimate -- 5 seconds
IMO a realistic target for a Whipple supercharged GT (stock engine) is 375-425 rwhp. And save your pennies -- anybody who thinks they are just going to strap on a $5k whipple and be done with it is being overly optimistic. Horsepower is expensive.
Dave
very well said... those motors arent the same as the 03 i live in kc and have seen some testing done on the 05 from procharger. the kit is very nice, and makes very respectable numbers "460+rwhp on there base kit. they went back to the design to like the fox bodys so you can run up to a 12 rib drive with no belt slip. which was hurting alot of there 4.6 stuff so i would wait to see all the cats out of the bag before i would buy one if it was my choice. just my opinion.
"horsepower is very expensive" i dont believe you can just but a whipple and tunerbox comes with it and its going to be 100% done. i have had many high power mustangs. and the famous "bolt right on" lol well i think anyone whos done this before would know thats a funny statement!!!
I know better than to say this on a website like thisMrDrezzUp said:I have been trying to decide between an 05 GT and an 03-04 Cobra for months. I like the 05 GT but I can't get my mind around the 430HP ceiling, and the 600 RWHP+ (on race gas) for a Cobra sends tingles down my spine!
My present plan is to buy an 05 GT, drop a Whipple/KB blower on it and hope I blow the bottom end! ;-) That will force me to buy a 8.5 CR forged shortblock!
but here goes...I'm of the school that much more than 400 RWHP is pretty much useless on the street. I tend to shy away from the strip and if I do take my Stang to the races I normally go to an open track event. I'm not a good enough driver to effectively use 600hp, but I imagine 1/2 the guys that actually have those powerful cars aren't either but just won't admit it...
If anyone sees the official KB press releases soon...please post them up or provide a link.
Thanks
Wsmatau said:I know better than to say this on a website like this
I'm of the school that much more than 400 RWHP is pretty much useless on the street. I tend to shy away from the strip and if I do take my Stang to the races I normally go to an open track event. I'm not a good enough driver to effectively use 600hp, but I imagine 1/2 the guys that actually have those powerful cars aren't either but just won't admit it...
If anyone sees the official KB press releases soon...please post them up or provide a link.
Thanks
Wsmatau, there is no rolling of the eyes going on with me! I am in desperate need of information and opinions such as what you have just given. As someone who hasn't drivin anything high powered (other than slightly modified Mustangs and Corvettes) I openly confess to having NO IDEA as to how much power I should be shooting for. I read in a Mustang article once an author stating that anything over 500-550 HP was basically useless for the street. If 430 RWHP is sufficient (once again I have no idea) then whether or not to get an 03-04 Cobra or a 2005 Mustang is no longer a concern as I would simply get the 05 GT. I have owned a '94 GT vert (modded) and I presently own an '02 GT vert (slightly modded) and the thought of getting into another SN95 or New Edge Mustang is by no means appealing!
As for the KB link I am checking their site every other day and have posted in the KB forum asking for any info or even a hint as to their kit! Realistically though I do not expect them to come out with a kit much different than the kit they offer for the 2V GT as the rotating assembly simply can't take more than that.
MrDrezzUp said:
I was in the same boat a few years back. I wanted a stroked 351 dropped into my 94 Cobra when the guy at the performance shop asked me if I really had any idea what I was getting into. He was nice enough to let me drive his 347 which "Only" had 375 HP. It changed my mind pretty quickly. That is what Mustang clubs are really good for. Don't get caught up in the hype of magazine build-ups or peak numbers. Everyone I've ever spoken to that had a KB absolutely loved it. No, it won't put out the biggest numbers, but it is fun and more HP than anyone on the street will ever use IMHO. Spend the extra money on something like Skip Barber/ Bondurant and learn to use what you have to it's full potential. You'll win more races that you weren't supposed to (vs Corvettes/Vipers) than you'll lose. And you'll have a ton of fun at driving school.
Horsepower is VERY expensive (ususally breaking/replacing other parts behind the engine). If you can find a car (i.e 2004 Cobra) that is reliable or even warranted that makes you happy, then you do not have to deal with the grief that goes along with trying to be the biggest dog on the block.
Wsmatau said:I was in the same boat a few years back. I wanted a stroked 351 dropped into my 94 Cobra when the guy at the performance shop asked me if I really had any idea what I was getting into. He was nice enough to let me drive his 347 which "Only" had 375 HP. It changed my mind pretty quickly. That is what Mustang clubs are really good for. Don't get caught up in the hype of magazine build-ups or peak numbers. Everyone I've ever spoken to that had a KB absolutely loved it. No, it won't put out the biggest numbers, but it is fun and more HP than anyone on the street will ever use IMHO. Spend the extra money on something like Skip Barber/ Bondurant and learn to use what you have to it's full potential. You'll win more races that you weren't supposed to (vs Corvettes/Vipers) than you'll lose. And you'll have a ton of fun at driving school.
Horsepower is VERY expensive (ususally breaking/replacing other parts behind the engine). If you can find a car (i.e 2004 Cobra) that is reliable or even warranted that makes you happy, then you do not have to deal with the grief that goes along with trying to be the biggest dog on the block.
Funny you mention the '94 Cobra with a 351 stroker as that was my plan for my '94. lol
Rather than hijack this thread any longer I dug up Dustin Whipple's post from modularfords.com
-------------------
Sorry for the delay in response.
The fuel line is a cross over line, had to remove the factory hard line. For production, the kit will go around the back.
Current HP levels, although very preliminary are 455-465rwhp @ 8lbs. Were testing different intercoolers, heat exchangers, timing tables, etc. so that may change. The kit price will be somewhere in the mid $4000 range but aren't sure yet. It will include all the parts including a PCM flash tool, heat exchanger, water reservoir, intercooler, etc.
Auto tranny?
Well, thats something that will be tested. I know that it will not live without some type of torque management thats for sure. The manual will be released first but as long as we feel we can get the auto to live under reasonable usage, then it will be released afterwards. We will offer it so that it's reliable, so if it needs extra parts, we will include them in the kit. To note, the transmission is the same as the Ford Ranger! Not sure who was in charge of that for a performance car such as the stang.The 6 rib setup will be fine for most applications up to 12lbs. An 8 rib system is possible but difficult and we won't be addressing that until later in next year.
Thanks,
Dustin
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More info...
Here is another snippet I have dug up. Interestingly enough, I have been searching high and low to find out what size supercharger it will be, and after re-reading Dustin's post the answer is right there...a 2.3 liter. That size should be good for 20+ lbs of boost (great for those who may want to drop in a forged low compression short block at a later date).
-------------
Some may have problems supercharging the 05' stang, but we don't. We will be putting the motor through vigorous testing including WOT for 100 hours. No other company will do anything even close to this. So our system WILL be the most reliable power adder out there. We have a 4" thick intercooler, louvered fin, bar plate design, 16fpi. Theres a 1.5 gallon reservoir, a 4" fluidyne heat exchanger, 2.3Liter SC, 4" inlet tubing, enclosed air filter, etc.... The stock hyperutetic piston is certainly not ideal, but this style has been used for years, as long as you can control knock, the piston will live so the challenge is doing the proper testing, I'm afraid most of the aftermarket can not offer such testing. The AVL cylinder pressure transducer system with software and equipment is nearly $300,000. The endurance test, whether you pass or fail is over $50,000. We did this with our Ford Ranger project. 50 hours at peak torque, 50 hours at peak hp, 11lbs of unintercooled boost, on the edge of detonation. That was the 3.0 Vulcan engine, a far cry from the 4.6 3v Mustang engine.
I don't see customers shoving insane levels of boost like prior setups, the market I think will go more to the "bolt-on" setups vs. the custom setups.
We use all Ford calibration software, authorizied by Ford. Our head calibrator is one of the most sought after calibration experts involved in the Ford communnity. We had our 04' 3v running quite some time ago, the first to my knowledge to run with the electronic throttle.
I don't see how an aftermarket PCM can work with the ETC of the Mustang. The Corvette ETC is based off a completely different philosphy. The GM systems are used to open and close the throttle, not torque management. The Ford system is torque based. They have a certain % +/- the given torque level at a certain throttle position/MAF flow rate that the engine can see, if you exceed those %, the ETC will modify the air flow (decrease or increase) and possibly set a code.
Price should be in the mid $4000 range, but thats just an estimate, but I won't truly know until I finish the BOM.
Thanks,
Dustin Whipple
-------------
Here is another snippet I have dug up. Interestingly enough, I have been searching high and low to find out what size supercharger it will be, and after re-reading Dustin's post the answer is right there...a 2.3 liter. That size should be good for 20+ lbs of boost (great for those who may want to drop in a forged low compression short block at a later date).
-------------
Some may have problems supercharging the 05' stang, but we don't. We will be putting the motor through vigorous testing including WOT for 100 hours. No other company will do anything even close to this. So our system WILL be the most reliable power adder out there. We have a 4" thick intercooler, louvered fin, bar plate design, 16fpi. Theres a 1.5 gallon reservoir, a 4" fluidyne heat exchanger, 2.3Liter SC, 4" inlet tubing, enclosed air filter, etc.... The stock hyperutetic piston is certainly not ideal, but this style has been used for years, as long as you can control knock, the piston will live so the challenge is doing the proper testing, I'm afraid most of the aftermarket can not offer such testing. The AVL cylinder pressure transducer system with software and equipment is nearly $300,000. The endurance test, whether you pass or fail is over $50,000. We did this with our Ford Ranger project. 50 hours at peak torque, 50 hours at peak hp, 11lbs of unintercooled boost, on the edge of detonation. That was the 3.0 Vulcan engine, a far cry from the 4.6 3v Mustang engine.
I don't see customers shoving insane levels of boost like prior setups, the market I think will go more to the "bolt-on" setups vs. the custom setups.
We use all Ford calibration software, authorizied by Ford. Our head calibrator is one of the most sought after calibration experts involved in the Ford communnity. We had our 04' 3v running quite some time ago, the first to my knowledge to run with the electronic throttle.
I don't see how an aftermarket PCM can work with the ETC of the Mustang. The Corvette ETC is based off a completely different philosphy. The GM systems are used to open and close the throttle, not torque management. The Ford system is torque based. They have a certain % +/- the given torque level at a certain throttle position/MAF flow rate that the engine can see, if you exceed those %, the ETC will modify the air flow (decrease or increase) and possibly set a code.
Price should be in the mid $4000 range, but thats just an estimate, but I won't truly know until I finish the BOM.
Thanks,
Dustin Whipple
-------------
Rootus said:
One thing your not thinking is that the 9.8:1 will make the same power as the 8.5:1 motor with much less boost. You won't need to run 15 psi, you can probably get similar results with 8 psi. It'll probably be harder to tune, but will make power. Also the pistons should hold up pretty good as long as they don't see any spark knock.
For a example, I could probably dig up the spec's of a guy in perto rico with a 2.5 ltr sti. Stock short block has the hyperwhatever pistons in them. He made 500 awhp on the dyno and trapped like 128 mph. The 6 speed tranny was hurting it, he damn near needed to shift into 6th before the end. Now that was a low compression motor, and he was probably running a bit over 20 psi of boost. But, that shows you don't need forged to make good power.
(note: I still think forged is the way to go, but that doesn't you can't make the power on the hypercrap pistons either.)
racinready300ex said:
Very politely I would have to disagree.
1 psi boost = .5 point CR (effective CR)
1 point CR = 2 psi boost (CYLINDER PRESSURE)
1 point CR = 2% HP
1 psi boost = 6.8% HP max (1 ÷ 14.7 = 6.8%)
Your motor is 8:1. Do you add 2 points of CR or do you add 4lbs of boost? Let's run the numbers: 2CR x 2% = 4% increase in power. 4 x 6.8% = 27% increase in power. Both scenarios leave you at a 10:1 CR....would you pick the 4% increase in power or the 27% in power?
Here is some information I have scooped from the Kenne Bell site.
How is supercharging better than raising the compression ratio? Both increase torque and horsepower by squeezing more air fuel charge into the same area. In the case of higher compression ratio (milled heads or domed pistons) the increased power from this higher compression helps ONLY on the power stroke. The higher compressed air fuel mix will fire with a bigger bang. Again, that is the only point during the 4 engine cycles where higher compression helps. However, with a supercharger, the cylinder is fully pressurized during
all 4 cycles. The higher boosted air is forced into the cylinders during the entire intake stroke and is blown out the exhaust on the exhaust stroke. It just doesn't get any better than this.
1 psi boost = .5 point CR (effective CR)
1 point CR = 2 psi boost (CYLINDER PRESSURE)
1 point CR = 2% HP
1 psi boost = 6.8% HP max (1 ÷ 14.7 = 6.8%)
1 psi boost requires 1-1.5 octane
1 point CR = 3 - 5 octane
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