GT-500 = Boat

[RICKS]

Yeah... just like a 93 Cobra kept in the garage and not driven isn't a collectors item today either. It's barely more than a GT.

Just like any Fox GT found with barely any miles on it, would not be a collectors item today.

I'd hazard a guess that anyone in this forum would be drooling over the chance to buy a pristine Fox with next to no miles on it. How would it be any different for the new car? The ones that aren't wrapped around trees by ass-children with rich mommies or modified to point where they're are not recognized will all fetch a good return in 10 years. Those that are kept like new and not driven... they'll be worth a hell of a lot more than they are today.

I would suggest you think things through a bit more, because I'm about to blow more holes in your theory than Bonnie & Clyde's Ford...

"Worth more" means nothing over a span of time unless you consider inflation and costs incurred during that span.

Purchase price of a new '93 Cobra, around $21,055 loaded-up (I got that off the window sticker of my '93 Cobra that I special-ordered new, triple-black with every possible option except leather, as I wanted an all-black interior, car is still in the wrapper with 32 original miles..), plus tax $22,318 (was 6% at the time).

NOW, as Jethro would say, let's do some cyphering...

Adjust for inflation, $22,318 in 1993 dollars equals $30,224 today, using the U.S. CPI

Add in keeping collector car insurance on it (far cheaper than traditional auto insurance). Trying to scale this for inflation is too damn complicated, so I'll just be nice and conservative.. $300/year X 13 years = $3,900

Of course, the car will go to hell in no time unless you air condition and heat the storage unit, or garage that it lives in. That costs money over 13 years, not to mention the space it occupies, but I'm not going to nit-pick here, I'm going to ignore that. I'm also going to ignore care and upkeep, which they require even when you're not driving them...

Just using inflation-adjusted purchase-price, and insurance, you've got roughly $34,000 tied up in the car, assuming that you already had the space available, already had it climate-controlled, and don't place a value on your own time and labor...

Now, tell me how much money you'll make today by selling that brand-new '93 Cobra... Do you think you can even break-even?? I don't truly think you'd be able to eclipse the $30K barrier myself... And I used MSRP for this exercise, not MSRP + some ridiculous dealer mark-up..., and I own one of the very cars you indicated would have been a "good investment".

The forecast for a run-of-the-mill Fox platform 5.0 GT or LX would be FAR UGLIER, as even a brand-new in-the-wrapper loaded-up Fox GT convertible, when/if you find one, doesn't fetch much more than $20K in today's market, and they cost in the $17K-21K range MSRP between 1987 & 1993.

 

[351CJ]

Thanks for the reality check Ricks. I was going to respond to Daggar's post yesterday but didn't have the energy.

And just to be clear about it, I am a Mustang owner, have participated here for several years and I have ZERO interest in owning any Fox Mustang including a new in the wrapper 0 miles 93 Cobra.

 

[GNN60GT500]

At $45,000, the GT500 is a heck of a deal- at $65,000- I dont know- seems a little crazy too me-


In 25 years, the 07 GT500 might be worth more- but not until then-

But to put one in storage for 25 years is pretty much a waste of money if you ask me-

When I buy my GT500- when the depreciation sets in- Im going to drive the s**t out of it-

I have a feeling that depreciation is going to start right about when they launch the next generation GT500-

Not driving a Shelby like it was meant to be driven is like marrying a beautiful woman and never sleeping with her-

basically whether you marry a pretty girl and dont sleep with her, or if you buy a Shelby and dont drive it-

in both cases your pretty much gay-

I wonder if the guys at Evolution performance are worried that they are ruining the collectability of their car? LOL

 

[enyawix]

Say what?

A 90LX weights about 3230 lb

that is what is stamped in the door want a pic?

 

[RICKS]

that is what is stamped in the door want a pic?

Man, I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but pepper you with the laughing smilies....

That figure you're reading on your door sticker is for GVWR..... Here's the straightforward government definition:


Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
Is the maximum recommended weight for a vehicle, including: the weight of the vehicle itself, fuel and other fluids, passengers, and all cargo.


In other words, that's the maximum recommended weight that your car can CARRY, including the weight of the vehicle itself. In short, if you took your roughly 3,200 lb LX, filled it with gas, loaded-up three 250 lb friends, and you yourself weighed 250 lbs, you would be considered "overloaded" roughly at that point.

4,200 lbs, that's a good one!! FYI, that's approximately what a well-optioned CROWN VICTORIA weighs!!

Sorry for being so hard on ya, but nobody said learning about cars was pretty..

 

[bigcat]

lets just see where this 93 cobra R ends up for arguments sake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[GNN60GT500]

lets just see where this 93 cobra R ends up for arguments sake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a BIG difference between a car with a production number of 106 and a Shelby GT500 with a production number of 20,000

BIG HUGE GIGANTOR

 

[enyawix]

$30,100.00 now I say it is a classic

 

[RICKS]

$30,100.00 now I say it is a classic

As was stated earlier, you can't compare an ultra-low-production unit like an R-model Cobra... to the new Shelby. That's just silly and insulting to everyone's collective intelligence.

I've got a '93 R-model with 140 miles on it, so I'm gonna watch this auction with interest!!

I never said you couldn't do well investment-wise with certain cars. It's the "CERTAIN" part of that which is key, and the cars typically have to be VERY VERY low-production, i.e. Buick GNX, Cobra R-model, etc... and realize that it's taken 13 flippin years for these '93 R-models to finally take a stab upward. This time last year, that car would have sold for $30-$35K, period. Which, when you do the calculating against the original purchase-price of the car, would have been a LOSS...

 

[enyawix]

Brace is installed and the crack has been corrected...

These cars are just getting heavier, there isn't much we can do expect pay more for them or make them smaller to keep the weights lower.

Why can ford not use a smaller platform like the ford probe the gt500 would be no match for a 4.6 probe. It would get spanked no questions.

 

[Pro Mod]

Why can ford not use a smaller platform like the ford probe the gt500 would be no match for a 4.6 probe. It would get spanked no questions.

There are inherent things in todays cars that will naturally make them weigh more. The S197 Mustang isn't the only car that falls into this. Even Civics are approaching 3,100 in some cases, if not more. My 03 Subaru Impreza weighed in at 3,300. My 06 Mustang GT weighs 3,630 with me in it. Yes I know my old 87 LX weighs 3,200 (w/o me) but there are alot of benefits for the added ~250-300. As mentioned earlier, the cars are safer, are built better, crumple better, and ride better. Chassis flex is nonexistent, and the suspension is allowed to *do it's job.* Everything is not always about power/weight and just making the car quick in the 1/4 mile. The new Mustangs are WORLDS better than they were a few years ago.

Everybody's bagging on the 05+ Mustang and the GT500 because of the weight. You seriously think the Camaro & Challenger won't weigh in near 4,000#? Both cars are going to utilize an independent rear suspension; that will add weight over us. The Challenger concept has been stated to have weighed over 4,000#, but they hope the production chassis will come in around 3,900. Same with the Camaro. This is just normal for todays cars. It's nothing against a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger; the cars are just built better.

What I see happening with the Camaro/Challenger, is that they're going to shoot for the GT500 and be right in the game dollar for dollar, hp for hp (like I said though, they will also match weight for weight). However, I think they're going to overshoot the Mustang GT. ALOT of sales are in this $25000-$30000 Mustang GT. With the powertrains & suspensions they plan to use, I don't see how they can put out a low-end V8 Camaro or Challenger for anything CLOSE to $25,000. I don't think they plan for much volume for either car. Ford will be just happy selling all the $30,000 Mustang GT's they want.

Now I'm not touching the collector car issue with a 10-foot pole!
If I was going to buy something for investment purposes, it sure wouldn't be on wheels to begin with.

 

[bigcat]

What I see happening with the Camaro/Challenger, is that they're going to shoot for the GT500 and be right in the game dollar for dollar, hp for hp (like I said though, they will also match weight for weight). However, I think they're going to overshoot the Mustang GT. ALOT of sales are in this $25000-$30000 Mustang GT. With the powertrains & suspensions they plan to use, I don't see how they can put out a low-end V8 Camaro or Challenger for anything CLOSE to $25,000. I don't think they plan for much volume for either car. Ford will be just happy selling all the $30,000 Mustang GT's they want.

the GM survey for the camaro listed a possibility of a 5.3L engine. if they use this motor as the base V8, i think costs could come down, as the 5.3L is widely used in many of GMs cars right now. there would be minimal investment to make this engine fit the new chassis. i can see how this could POSSIBLY keep the base camaro in line with the S197 GT. but, will GM make it happen this way? only time will tell for sure.

 

[srothfuss]

The early production figures [read dreams] are:

Camaro - 100K

Challenger - 30K

With that, the Camaro could possibly compete with the Mustang price wise. The challenger not so much with low volumes.

I don't think I was bagging to much on the weight was I? More on the price people are (were?) paying for the Gt500.

 

[351CJ]

You're right on that - dreams.
When was the last time GM sold 100K F bodies? And when they sold that many it was against a much weaker Mustang product.

I think many people are going to be shocked as to how expensive the Challenger will be.

 

[stykthyn]

the minimum price for any SRT equipped vehicles is around 45K, and the challenger is sporting parts not found on any other of the LX platform vehicles that it's based on. add that to the fact that it will be produced in very low numbers so the dealers are going to put a hell of a mark up on it. I fully expect the average challenger to come in with a 50k price tag. I think it looks great, but it wont be something the avg consumer will be able to afford

 

[mattkimsey]

You're right on that - dreams.
When was the last time GM sold 100K F bodies? And when they sold that many it was against a much weaker Mustang product.

I think many people are going to be shocked as to how expensive the Challenger will be.

I was looking at sales the other day -- from what I found, the fbody sold more units in '82, '83, '84, '85, '86, '87, '91, '92, '94, '95 and '97. From '98-'02 the Mustang definately sold more units, but I don't see why GM can't get back to selling a lot of fbodies -- especially since they aren't actually trying to outsell the Mustang.

 

[chuckdoc]

:OT:

This thread started out talking about the handling characteristics of the Shelby GT500... Now we're discussing GM F body sales figures??

O.k.

 

[mattkimsey]

:OT:

This thread started out talking about the handling characteristics of the Shelby GT500... Now we're discussing GM F body sales figures??

O.k.

If I've learned one thing, threads on car forums stay on topic about 3% of the time.

 

[chuckdoc]

Guess so. LOL



chuck