H/C/I vs. Supercharger

[jrod92]

What does H/C/I stand for? High Compression Intake?

 

[mustangdaren]

I have a B cam ($189), GT40Y303 heads ($719), Typhoon intake ($280) bucks , stock shorty headers , gutted factory Hpipe , flowmaster cat back , car made 245 rwhp , 274rwtq , total investment with gaskets and all , little over $1200 bucks , dont think you can buy a blower for that and at around $1600 bucks I dont see a novi 1000 or powerdyne 6psi kit beating those numbers by much on a bone stock car .........and keep in mind the trickflow stage one cam is better than the B cam , and its 50 bucks cheaper

With a SC-trim on a stock motor you would be looking at 275 - 300 rwhp and 300 - 350 rwtq. A plus would be no driveability change. With nice lopey cam the driveability is definitely worse than the stock cam. As for the powerdyne kit I wouldn't recommend it. Two of my friends had it and when they switched to a Vortech they gained a ton of power running the same amount of boost. The best blower for the money right now in my opinion is the Novi 2k. I have seen them for as low as $2500 including the fuel pump and BTM. They are also pretty quiet compared to the Vortech V-1 blowers.

 

[Andres2882]

But would putting on a blower be safe for a 12+ year old car with 100k+ miles on it? Isn't that a bit liking pulling the pin out of the grenade?

 

[2000xp8]

But would putting on a blower be safe for a 12+ year old car with 100k+ miles on it? Isn't that a bit liking pulling the pin out of the grenade?

It likely won't be safe, as i said earlier i see it all the time, the boost will blow out gaskets all over the place. Your intake gaskets will be gone in weeks. If you are fixing them yourself for free that's one thing, if you have to pay to have it done that's another.

QDhorse, i see what you are saying.
If it was between a mild h/c/i combo and a supercharger i'd take the supercharger.
IMO there is no point anymore in a mild h/c/i setup, at the track on slicks they are ok, but you'll get your'e butt whooped on the street by every ls1, evo, and srt neon.
I also don't see the point in the SC or A-trim, get the S so you don't need to upgrade later.

If you go for the H/c/i go all out or close to it, like edelbrock, afr,canfields, or tw's.
I'm not down with ported E7's, ported stock intakes, gt40 irons or p heads.

Doing H/c/i work twice is nuts, there's too many gaskets and misc crap that has to be bought twice.

So in conclusion, my final opionion is:
An all out h/c/i combo, and if not, an S trim. To me there is no other options.

 

[IntenseBlue]

What does H/C/I stand for? High Compression Intake?

Heads, cam, intake

 

[Polter83]

Theres another thread, about five up.. where a guy is buying a whole explorer motor for 400 bucks.. ive seen several people post wondering if a 300-500 dollar explorer motor is a good buy...

EGR, 1/2 the people just delete it whether or not they are using gt40p heads or not. Its a preference...

I will have to disagree with you, QDRHRSE. I said 55-80 depending on what else you do.. dont just take the highest number and base it off the least amount of parts. Doesnt work. But now.. if you get the the right combo, 80hp (or lets doo the math, 300hp NA) out of the gt40p/gt40 heads setup is the standard goal. People are starting to make it more and more often. Perhaps you arnt reading enough about the P heads. Shoot I bought a set of p heads ready to bolt on with trickflow springs and valves, and the explorer intake, and the pheaders for 600. This stuff was all ready to be bolted on. Thats was less than 1/2 the price of a blower. Shrug.. im just voicing my two cents. If you dont believe its feasable dont. Do it your way

You dont have to do a H/C/I.. I would say just get a set of cheap gt40series heads and intake, and save the money for a blower.. later. Or shoot spend the money on other things. Sticky tires. Five lug conversion. Suspension. Cosemtics. Or save the money for if something gives and you need to replace it. This is a daily driver? if so.. id say get yourself a little beater, or a truck.

 

[mustangdaren]

It likely won't be safe, as i said earlier i see it all the time, the boost will blow out gaskets all over the place. Your intake gaskets will be gone in weeks. If you are fixing them yourself for free that's one thing, if you have to pay to have it done that's another.

QDhorse, i see what you are saying.
If it was between a mild h/c/i combo and a supercharger i'd take the supercharger.
IMO there is no point anymore in a mild h/c/i setup, at the track on slicks they are ok, but you'll get your'e butt whooped on the street by every ls1, evo, and srt neon.
I also don't see the point in the SC or A-trim, get the S so you don't need to upgrade later.

If you go for the H/c/i go all out or close to it, like edelbrock, afr,canfields, or tw's.
I'm not down with ported E7's, ported stock intakes, gt40 irons or p heads.

Doing H/c/i work twice is nuts, there's too many gaskets and misc crap that has to be bought twice.

So in conclusion, my final opionion is:
An all out h/c/i combo, and if not, an S trim. To me there is no other options.

The SC-trim and A-trim are totally different. Why spend the extra money on the s-trim when you can upgrade to an 8 rib 9psi pulleys for only $225 or cheaper yet just swap the crank pulley for a 7 inch which would give you 12-14psi on a stock motor. Either way you look at it, H/CI or supercharger they are both going on a high mileage stock bottom end so both can shorten it's life. With a proper tune I don't think you will have to worry about the head gaskets with 5psi. In addition the base 5psi will get you plenty of power and not be that hard on your motor. It's not like you will be driving around making boost all the time but it will be there if you need it.

Here are some specs between the SC-trim and S-trim.

S- trim
680 max horsepower
1000 cfm
20psi max
50,000 rpm max
72% adiabatic eff.

SC-trim
680 max horsepower
1000 cfm
20 psi max
53,000 rpm max
75% adiabatic eff.

 

[2000xp8]

S- trim
680 max horsepower
1000 cfm
20psi max
50,000 rpm max
72% adiabatic eff.

SC-trim
680 max horsepower
1000 cfm
20 psi max
53,000 rpm max
75% adiabatic eff.

Good info daren, i asked a few posts back and nobody answered.
But doesn't it come out to be about the same price by the time you are done?

 

[IntenseBlue]

I'm not positive on this, but I think they gave the wrong stats on the SC trim. I think it's like the Novi 1000. While an S trim is like a Novi 1200. The S trim and Novi 1200 have the same boost/horsepower stats, but the 1000 is 500horse max.

 

[mustangdaren]

I'm not positive on this, but I think they gave the wrong stats on the SC trim. I think it's like the Novi 1000. While an S trim is like a Novi 1200. The S trim and Novi 1200 have the same boost/horsepower stats, but the 1000 is 500horse max.

SC-trim stats has always been like that. Heard the reason the Novi 1200 came out is to compete with the SC-trim. Novi 1k is more online with the Vortech A-trim.

 

[IntenseBlue]

What's the difference then? Can you put it in realworld terms or was that just a copy/paste effect?

 

[mustangdaren]

SC-trim $1640, Aluminum discharge tube with bypass, $170, MSD6-BTM $320, Walbro GSS340 $100, 8 rib pulley upgrade $225. ($2455) You can get out cheaper by just getting a bypass valve for $40 and at BTM for $160. I didn't want to separate boxes to mount is why I went with the MSD6-btm.
The S-trim with an MSD6-A to go with the BTM that comes in the kit would be around $2750. Just depends on if you want to mod the car or not. If you just want to add the blower, fuel pump and a bosch bypass you could get out around $1780. I would say if you got the money go with the s-trim but if you are on a budget you can get the sc-trim and upgrade as you get the cash. As for the novi 2k I just checked on the price and it has really went up since I last checked on it. It is around $3150 now with the Novi 1k around $1750

 

[IntenseBlue]

The Novi 2000 is alot better than the S-trim. It's up there with the D1 and T-trim.

I didn't want to know the difference between the kits. I wanted to know the difference between the head units.

 

[mustangdaren]

What's the difference then? Can you put it in realworld terms or was that just a copy/paste effect?

To be honest I couldn't tell you with out looking at the compressor maps of both. I heard that you have to spin the SC-trim a little faster to get the same output as the s-trim. My friend runs a sc-trim with stock heads, steeda cam and gt40 intake with a 7in crank pulley (11psi) , still using the 6 rib belt. It makes a little over 400rwhp. Could make more but the 6 rib has some slippage.

 

[mustangdaren]

The Novi 2000 is alot better than the S-trim. It's up there with the D1 and T-trim.

I didn't want to know the difference between the kits. I wanted to know the difference between the head units.

I agree with you there. Novi 2k is a nice blower. I have a friend running it putting down 700+rwhp at 22psi, which is only 200 less rwhp than he made using a Vortech XX-trim with an igloo cooler and cog pulley setup.

 

[IntenseBlue]

The Paxton Novi 2000 is a great blower. I'd like to have a YS trim.

 

[clarkjr]

Back to the question. HCI can be done much cheaper depending on what you use. If you have the money, an S/C is hard to beat and will be easier to install too. At some point, you will want both though!

 

[mustangdaren]

I just don't see how it could be cheaper and have the same performance buying new parts, not used.

TFS Heads $1100
1.6 Roller Rockers (required for the TFS heads) $240
Throttle body $179
EGR spacer $59
Cobra intake $399
Cam $169
Gaskets $100
Shorty headers $160 (someone would be nuts to reuse the stock headers on a H/C/I setup.

Well that adds up to about $2406 compared to $1640 for a base SC-trim on a bone stock motor. Both setups would be putting out just about the same peak horsepower and torque. I know I could have went with GT40 heads for a little cheaper but I wanted to go with something with comparable power to the blower. My friend's car with the above H/C/I setup put down 299rwhp. The blower should be right on those horsepower numbers but with more rear wheel torque which is a plus.

 

[Aliate X]

guys....he has 52k miles on the engine.


Do the supercharger and dont look back, simple as that.

 

[runningmole]

A proper H/C/I would make more power but would most likley effect the gas milege and drivability negativly. A S/C wouldn't do much to gas milege, emmisions, or drivability but would add a considerable amount of power. Plus, do a S/C then you can later do a H/C/I that better matches a S/C setup.

I would do the opposite. HCI then add some boost later