Heads Are Off.........images And Thoughts On Piston

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by from6to8, Jan 20, 2014.


  1. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    You can crank over the engine to make pistons more accessible. With the heads off, it turns over very easily with a socket and ratchet on the balancer bolt. You can pull the lifters out with your fingers. You don't even need a magnet. You have to remove the spider tray which is held down with 2 bolts, and the 8 lifter retainers.

    Kurt
  2. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    ok i just wanted to make sure there werent any special instructions or something I could mess up if i didnt do it a certain way. I guess with the heads on a magnet would have been needed.

    ok another dilema I encountered a few minutes ago. I could have sworn people were saying after removing the PS pulley and then the three bolts, the bracket would be free. Well not on mine. It appears the AC compressor is still attached somehow so i'm about to look in the manual and online if i dont find it in ref to have to remove it, where the bolts are. Must have been a fox thats setup differently as to what they were referring to.

    also, when i started today i noticed some fluid on the concrete beneath the ps pump and ac compressor and im thinking its ps fluid but it looked rather light colored on the cement and inside the ps reservoir it looks dark. I think if you put some on your hand though it will be light so i will check it. I'm wondering how the dam fluid leaked out as the bracket and everything was propped up by a jack stand and everything was in its usual position. Will wipe the hoses and stuff and everything and clean up that fluid and see if tommorow its more on the floor and inspect stuff
  3. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    and Kurt whats your thoughts on the cosmetic gaskets for 93 bucks? Are they reusable over and over?
  4. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    Most people in this section have fox bodies. The fox body bracket is like a puzzle you put together. The SN bracket is much simpler. there are 4 long 13mm bolts and two centering dowels that hold the compressor to the bracket. They go in from the side of the compressor. Just remove those bolts slide the compressor off the dowels, and zip tie the compressor up to keep it from putting strain on the ac hoses.

    The lifters will come out with very little effort whether the head is there or not. Some heads have a low casting, and it is not possible to get the lifters out of the bore with the heads still on. It usually isn't a problem though.

    If your heads have a receiver groove already cut in them, you are better off with an o-ring setup, like the lockwire gasket, or a permanent o-ring over the cometic gaskets. The cometics are not re usable.

    Kurt
  5. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    i thought u said something about getting them milled would be best so i would not have to spend 70 bucks a piece on head gaskets lol?

    i would have higher compression getting them milled the guy at the machine shop said and it would cost bout 100 bucks . The regular gaskets are about 40 for both
  6. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I recommended having a permanent o-ring put in, not having them milled.

    Kurt
  7. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    yeah i will have to get a few more opinions on that but thanks. I will as Don when I take the heads to him about doing that and cost. He quoted me 100 to resurface them but not sure if i asked him about putting in a permanent O ring. I know he did say my compression would be raised as a result of the milling he would have to do which would be in the area of .35 over or something

    with those heads I have does it have to have one or the other, a permanent one in the head or the o ring grooved gaskets? Yeah i thought u were saying getting the o ring groove taken out of the head so it woudnt require an O ring gasket but guess i was mistaken
  8. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    why o-ring? I'd prfer the head gasket to be a weak point in case somethng goes wrong
  9. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    well from what Kurt was saying it seems as if the O ring is permanent in the head i can use regular gaskets. I'm not sure either way rather i definitely have to have either it permanently in the head or either use the O ring gaskets as the heads I have might require the use of one or the other or have one or the other done. Not sure I have a choice but i just asked him that and awaiting a reply.

    Also I'm going to go buy an agle grinder and buy a soft bristle brass head round wheel and lightly get the stuff off the block. I can't see scrubbing and getting that thing completely clean but then again i might just let some stuff soak into it a bit then go to work with elbow grease lol
  10. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    latest cylinder pics.jpg latest cylinder pics.jpg latest cylinder pics.jpg latest cyl 2.jpg latest cyl 3.jpg latest cyl 4.jpg latest cyl 6.jpg latest cylinder pics.jpg latest cyl 2.jpg latest cyl 3.jpg latest cyl 4.jpg latest cyl 6.jpg
  11. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    Amber spots equal hone coked? This is that guy's first view of my pistons since removing the heads and he said those amber markings are signs of the hone coked for sure.

    thoughts
  12. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    Get a second opinion from your local machinest.

    Kurt
  13. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    someone who I consider a good mechanic is going to stop by hopefully today. I'm trying to avoid removing the block if i dont have to and to get it there for the machine shop to look at would require me removing it. How difficult would it be to get to the tranny bolts, or bellhousing , whichever one I would have to unbolt to get the block out. How difficult it would be by myself and first time doing it?
  14. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    I will never O ring another cylinder head. Copper gaskets that always seep and retorqueing the cylinder heads after warm up (ie removing shaft rockers and headers) is a PITA. I like and will continue to use cometics. I use the actually Cometic brand as I don't trust the others. Cometics are all made to order they stock nothing and take a few days to get any time you order them. I typically re use the gaskets 2-3 times before replacing them. If they come off flat they are good to go, if they come of distorted they are trash. The last set of .066 5 layer Cometics cost me 230$ so they are not cheap by far but better than dealing with orings and copper gaskets IMO
  15. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I have had terrific luck with O-rings. I just use factory replacement head gaskets on my Mustang. I also don't retorque. I tried it a few times, and found that the bolts simply didn't move at all when I went to retorque. I did an O-ring and copper gasket on my MR2. If you put just a little bit of copper coat around all the passages, they don't seep. Drove that car 80,000 miles without a gasket problem. I've blown one head gasket on my Mustang in 15 years. Honestly I think it was from spraying it with a lean fuel mixture. The cometic gaskets are also very good. I just don't see paying that kind of money when I can O-ring it once and be done with it. If I start blowing gaskets with the amount of spray I have now, I will step up to copper gaskets.

    Kurt
  16. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    what about just having the machine shop mill it to bout .35 and not have an O ring in there at all and still using the regular gaskets?
    Kurt and 84T?
  17. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    That will work as well. Without a power adder, you will probably be fine with just stock gaskets. Keep in mind that milling the head will add to your compression. It will also effect your piston to valve clearance. Make sure the cam grinder knows that you intend to have the heads milled. I think you have reached the limit of advice that you are going to get off the internet. You really should talk to a professional engine builder before going further. He can give you more accurate advice on what would be your best option. I would be really dubious of anyone who will regrind a cam for the price you mentioned. Re grinding a cam means reducing the base circle. That means re doing all the pushrod geometry. I think that you are better off going to one person who can set up the whole combination, instead of dealing with 3 or 4 different people. Go with someone reputable. There is no warranty on race parts. Your only assurance is going with someone who has a good reputation. Every custom cam grinder I know charges $250 to $400 and uses a fresh cam blank to grind a custom cam. Someone who is charging $90 and wants to reuse the old cam sounds fishy. I am also questioning why they previously O-ringed the heads, and then used head bolts instead of studs. Studs are stronger and give you more even torque on the head. It should have been an obvious upgrade when the heads were put on in the first place.

    Kurt
  18. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    thanks for the advice. Yeah he said that he is definitely giving me a great deal and less definitely than what he would normally charge and maybe thats why he wants to use my cam also. I think he realizes how much I am learning and eager to learn and lending helping knowledge and stuff and trying to get me going. I can tell he is sincere and as offered good advice and ways he think i should go. I googled the other day , googled coked hone and read i forgot what page rather it was a Wiki or whatever but there were about 5 replies to a question and scrolling down halfway I saw Shaun's name where he gave his take on it and i think thats how i found him about a month ago and emailed him and he told me to call him. It was nearly midnight and we talked a few hours about my situation. I have been hearing for years that I am being held back with that E cam and he explained why his test of the E and F versus what he is going to grind for me is night and day.

    I'm going to take the heads to the machine shop and report back to him with the numbers of the installed height and the seat and closed pressures and he is going to get the springs for me. Either 80 bucks plug shipping for the PAC or less than 99 bucks for the K motion 800's. Also regrind my cam. I asked my homeboy to give me the numbers of his 3 engine builders he used with his 331, 347, and 408 and he hadnt gottten back to me yet. So yeah i appreciate all the help from you guys. I will probably get the head back and do a leak down test just to be sure on that pass side head anyway. I want to take all the knowledge I have learned and now I can decide what i really want to build later on and possibly even go ahead and get a block and work on it or have it worked on and ready and take my time and make my mind up. If I will be ok with getting the heads fixed then I want to try that. Also I think I will be satisfied with another cam but not spending outrageous knowing i will get another with more than likey my 331 build. If i do a 306 with SC i guess i will need a blower cam so i wont have spent too much money. He also will help me with setting up and checking the rocker arms, pushrod lengths so i will carefully do this before I rush and not have it right.
  19. from6to8

    from6to8 There's suction so I used that end O_O

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    Also forgot to poiint out that Jerry whom I got to come look at the car yesterday, this guy is a stickler for doing things only one way and the correct way. He has always told me that . I was able to get him to come by and look at the cylinder walls yesterday and he said they are fine. He can see better than someone can on a picture over a cell so i will trust his opinion but still do a leak down test more than likely when i get the head back.

    Also to clarify, I just called the guy whom i bought the heads from back in 04 and he said the heads have an O ring groove in them therefore i can use the regular head gaskets. The heads have an O ring in them already. I will talk to Don when i get to the machine shop in bout an hr and see if he can still mill down and keep the O ring so i can get more compression or I might just leave them as is, just depends.
  20. 1200gt

    1200gt Member

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    I agree.

    There is no way id get that close to the bottom end without pulling it apart for a fresh set of bearings and the works, unless the motor was already recently freshend up.

    However, that piston scrub probably won't kill a deal if you just want to throw it back together...
    A5literMan likes this.

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