Help Me Decide If I Should Change Cars

Discussion in '1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by Badd GT, Aug 27, 2013.


  1. Badd GT

    Badd GT Founding Member

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    At the local gatherings there are tons of cars running sub 10sec ETs and usually at least 5 cars 1,000+rwhp.

    I have a 2002 gt and it is all motor and runs about 12.1sec ETs full interior, air and radio.

    I did mess up and installed 44cc trick flows instead of 38cc
    Everything has been upgraded but factory block, radiator, rearend, brakes.
    Before I dump any more money into this car I want to know if i should change platform and go to new mustang or gt500 or something else all together
    Or what motor/tranny option would be better for this car.
    I always thought a wet sleeved teksid @ 11:1 would be ultimate but I am not sure that will even come close to cutting it anymore.
    I want to stay full interior, preferably all motor, and streetable low 10's reliably and lastly get decent mileage of at least 2ompg
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  2. Mattstang04

    Mattstang04 Active Member

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    Tough call. A new 5.0 puts you closer to your goals but its going to cost a lot for the newer car and the newer car mods. I think you are going to have to do a lot of modding either way. But you already have a good start on what you got. The modding will be more extensive on the older model.

    Comes down to which car you prefer and the money for a new car versus putting more money into the older car. Should be cheaper on the older car even if you change the heads again. (Building a block, you can work the piston shape to adjust compression too.)

    My 0.02 would be to keep building what you got. Especially since you are already so deep into the modding. I also hate car payments, assuming your not buying the new car outright.
    #2
  3. Badd GT

    Badd GT Founding Member

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    Here is current mods list for reference
    2002 GT mods: Steeda pullies, Steeda Tri-ax, Centerforce LMC clutch, aluminum flywheel, Trickflow intake, 315/35/17 nitto's, aluminum driveshaft, DS loop, X-pipe, Magnaflow catback, custom subframes, Steeda aluminum LCA's, reinforced torque boxes, VT stage I cams, 4.10's, hooker ceramic long tubes, SCT Jon Lund tune, lightweight battery, Stock maf, 30lb injectors. AJE K-member, polyurethane motor and trans mounts, Twisted Wedge heads 44cc, Ford racing B springs, Tokico D-Spec shocks and struts, windage tray, ball bearing water pump, PRO-Motion TR3650, Steeda clutch quadrant & firewall adjuster, solid steering shaft, Ford GT roller rockers, Focus pump, steeda bump steer, steeda caster cambers, HID headlights & fog lights, switchbacks & 180 T-stat
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  4. bhuff30

    bhuff30 Founding Member

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    First, I just want to say have fun instead of trying to keep up with the Jones's. There will always be someone with more horespower, more money, a louder mouth, ect. Keep it in your budget and you'll have more fun. Slow cars are fun too. I actually had more fun wringing my GT with a stick to 14s in the quarter than making a 12.2 pass in the 88. The GT was just more fun with less to think about. It's been said, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slowly.

    While noble , all motor is an uphill battle. Things get exponentially more expensive with increased rpms, and the only way to add all motor power is by moving the power band up. This will cause driveability, reliability and gas mileage to all suffer in the process. I say make good use of the lower compression ratio and add boost. With the modifications you already have, it'll respond very well to boost and you'll very easily find the limit of the stock bottom end.

    As for changing cars... you'll have to decide for yourself. I will say that NHVs, comfort, driveability and reliability will all make dramatic improvements if you set up to something 05+ or 2010+. For a daily driver, this could be important. You know those sub 10s cars aren't daily driven. In fact, I wouldn't want to daily drive one. Just too easy to get into tire spin anywhere (tickets and safety issues), you have to deal the cage getting in and out, gas mileage, tire wear, ect ect. See the earlier point about driving a slow car fast being more fun.
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  5. Badd GT

    Badd GT Founding Member

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    I don't want to keep up with the jones otherwise I would save money for a couple yrs and get a GT TT. Lol
    I have considered a turbo with maybe 6lbs but I can't find out if my AJE K-member is compatible with one.
    I live 15miles from procharger but don't want the added stress on crank.
    Won't go nitrous unless I have standalone fuel and pump and all safety gear ($2000). Pulling heads is pain in the ass I don't wish to do again
    Thought about selling my motor top to bottom and starting over
    Or maybe GT 500.
    I don't want to spin motor any faster than 7100rpms.
    I want it to run like factory with no quirks
    I hook like flypaper now and don't want traction problems
    That is a tall order in these new edges for factory like low 10's
    #5
  6. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    The number of people that have gone 10s in a 2-valve, NA 4.6 SN95 is EXTREMELY small. None of them have any kind of interior or A/C, none of them turn less than 7500 rpm, and none of them will get 20 mpg. So if that is your goal, you had might as well get that out of your mind.

    A realistic goal for an streetable N/A 2-valve 4.6 is sub 12.0s. It's not that hard to do (plenty of folks have done it now), but it will be challenging doing it with the full interior, A/C, and keeping fuel efficiency on the street decent. Looks like you're already close at 12.1s. What's your trap speed, btw? But faster than that becomes very difficult to do with more power. I mean, what else could you do to your car power-wise to go faster? Port the heads? Bigger cams? Different intake manifold? But that's about it, right? What's that worth, maybe half a second? So you're sitting, at best, at 11.6s (power moved up north of 7000 rpm, too). Now what? Taking weight out is about all that's left. And under the presumption of 100 pounds = .1 seconds, you're looking at taking off 600 pounds just to break into the 10s. It's not an easy task.

    If you want to go faster, forced induction really is the way to go. You say you don't want added stress on the crank; you realize what the crank does, right? To go sub 10s, you'll need 750+ rwhp, maybe more depending on the weight of the car. All of that power is stress on the crank; an extra 60 hp to turn the blower should be a non-issue.

    You can go turbo, but it's going to be tougher to keep it spooled and get consistent launches with a manual transmission. Plus, I don't personally know a single person with an aftermarket turbo car that doesn't constantly have issues with the car. I love turbos as much as the next guy, but they are high maintenance.

    My vote would be a blower turned on up. A Novi 2000 or D1sc would be good choices. Turn the boost on up and let it eat. As Brian mentioned earlier, those heads plus slightly lower compression will love that boost. Or, if you want more street power and low RPM torque, a 2.3 TVS will flow more than enough air for your goals. I know a local guy that has gone well into the 8s with a 2.3 TVS setup on a DOHC 4.6.
    #6
  7. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 we love us some gays up here Super Mod

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    If all you want to do is go faster and don't care about any of the other improvements/benefits that moving to the newer S197 5.0L car has to offer, then my suggestion would be to just sink the money into your current ride. Adding force induction would compliment your set up nicely and get you closer to your goal.
    #7
  8. Mattstang04

    Mattstang04 Active Member

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    Looking at your mod list, you've kinda built a perfect blower engine. Upgrade the injectors, add a boost a pump and throw a centrifugal supercharger, you got yourself a sick ride. I don't think the VT stage 1 cams would leak boost, but you may want to ask around about that.

    Centrifugals help maintain some sense of easy daily driving in the lower rpms, wouldn't have to change rear end gears because of traction issues. They are more reliable than turbo kits. Maintain some sense of fuel mileage if you can keep your foot out of it. Make sure you get a good tune and drive it anywhere.
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  9. Nightfire

    Nightfire Mustang Master

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    I don't mean to sound like an ass (or maybe I do) but.....



    LOL! All I can say is "LOL"!

    "Stand alone" fuel system for nitrous? Did you just finish watching Fast n Furious before making this thread?

    You sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. The first thing I'd suggest you do is do research and educate yourself on how cars "work". You sound completely clueless.
    #9
  10. bhuff30

    bhuff30 Founding Member

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    Hey, baddGT, I didn't even notice you are in KC. You said 12.1s? Where do you race at these days, or was that at KCIR before it closed down? I've been meaning to get out to HPT sometime this fall to try for a 13s pass.
    #10
  11. Badd GT

    Badd GT Founding Member

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    I am no idiot
    The standalone fuel for the nitrous is so I can roll around with 93 octane in car
    And have super high octane spraying thru the nitrous nozzle.
    Also trying to avoid lean spike on the initial hit from the nitrous.
    The standalone also has a adjustable fuel pressure regulator for a little more adjustment since fuel pressure Is set on the cars
    Also my fuel pressure in the rail should not dip a tiny bit for that split second on the hit.
    #11
  12. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    super high octane?
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  13. Badd GT

    Badd GT Founding Member

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    104 octane or higher
    Me and a buddy have mixed up way higher octane out of chemicals (somewhere around 115-117 octane if I remember right)
    I ran about 3 gallons thru a tank of 93 just to prove I could.
    It is scary putting something in your tank that don't come from a gas pump but I did.
    And yes I am aware of damage to O2 sensors and fuel lines and such
    Hopefully 104 unleaded would be enough.
    I am not looking to run a big shot maybe 75-125hp
    I would log a lot of dyno time to see what size shot, if gas mix is good, try to eliminate lean condition on hit & keep power within limits of stock bottom end.
    I would want to take my time on this because I am just not sure how it would all come together with the low compression I have now
    #13
  14. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    All of that is 100% unnecessary. You should have no lean spike with a wet shot (which is what you should be using). The fuel pressure is not "set". It is varied via variable voltage (ha, trying saying that 5 times in a row) to the fuel pump. A good friend of mine has been running a 150 rwhp shot for years now on stock injectors with a SVT Focus fuel pump. Nothing else. Runs like a champ. Mid-11s on soft launches on drag radials. Full weight car.


    As mentioned multiple times now, the lower compression would LOVE boost. Should be able to cram a lot in without running into detonation issues. Certainly WAY more than enough than the stock bottom end will hold.

    Unless he's going for a 100% max effort car (sounds like he's got a LONG ways to go before that happens), then they'd be fine. They could use a little more duration on the exhaust side, and a little more LSA, but it's not bad. The LSA on my cams is 113; the VTs are 110. Not 100% optimal, but I wouldn't swap them out unless I came out even on the cost aspect.
    #14
  15. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    wtf is a lean hit?? Only way that could happen is if you have the wrong jets in
    #15
  16. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    if you truly have a wet kit, hook that fugger up, jet it to 150, and go racing, just make sure you have a larger capacity fuel pump and you are good to go. A previous bolt on car of mine i ran a big shot plate jetted to 150, ran 11.15's at 118 mph pulling 1.4 60'
    #16
  17. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    On a dry shot that you are letting the computer compensate for (i.e. spraying through the MAF sensor), the nitrous will get to the cylinders before the extra fuel does, and cause it to go lean for a split second right when it hits. I sprayed a small dry shot through my setup for a while, and it does happen. But if you do it correctly and spray a wet shot, or spray a dry shot after the MAF and tune it so the injectors are already counting on the spray, then this doesn't happen.

    That car I mentioned in my previous post traps 121+. Bolt ons, gears, drag radials, and a 175 equivalent shot (along with a fuel pump). Runs like a champ. He does have most of the safety equipment, though (WOT switch, window switch, FRPS, bottle warmer, etc.).
    #17
  18. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    wow, i forgot theres such a thing as a dry shot, imo, if youre gonna go nitrous, do it right with a wet plate kit!
    #18
  19. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 we love us some gays up here Super Mod

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    Dry kits are better for pre '98 cars that utilize a return style fuel system, but aren't designed to spray a lot of nitrous. Most Dry set-ups are utilized to run within the 75-150hp range. Wet kits are better for higher horsepower applications. Wet kits generally spray nitrous and fuel together, where dry kits add fuel via the vehicles stock fuel system. Wet kits are generally considered more resistant to lean burn down compared to wet as its far easier to ensure the same amount of fuel and nitrous is being sprayed at the same time. That being said, wet kits have their problems as well....especially as far as the modular engine is concerned. An overly rich condition could cause fuel puddling in the intake manifold (a situation that the stock composite manifold used on the 4.6L is ideal for). If you've never heard, or seen a nitrous backfire before, do yourself a favor and hit up YouTube to check them out. It's quite spectacular.
    #19
  20. sneaky98gt

    sneaky98gt Mustang Master

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    Spray above 3K RPM and you're good to go.

    That's why I was spraying a dry shot. The torque from a 30 horsepower shot is awesome at 1500 rpm. :D
    #20

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